#Soylent | Logs for 2014-05-01
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[00:22:29] <michealpwalls> LOL well way to go poutine, you killed the conversations? :)
[00:27:42] <Blackmoore> :P
[00:27:58] <Blackmoore> g'night
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[00:42:44] <SoyCow2224> hmm testing out the keyboard
[00:42:50] <SoyCow2224> not bad actually
[00:42:59] <SoyCow2224> (surface pro 2)
[00:43:06] <SoyCow2224> for a laptop keyboard anyway
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[01:11:06] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Skeptic uses Babel to Expose Nonsense Essay - http://sylnt.us - the-editors-do-not-use-a-Babel-generator
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[02:29:07] <NC|ChromeBook> Well
[02:29:13] <NC|ChromeBook> Got to say, this isn't bad
[02:29:21] <NC|ChromeBook> keyboard is decent, machine was the right price
[02:29:39] <NC|ChromeBook> But slightly creepy on how all my searches from my phone synced ... I knew Google did that but still
[02:30:13] <michealpwalls> lol
[02:30:24] <michealpwalls> https://duckduckgo.com
[02:31:03] <michealpwalls> Can you get an app for ddg? That would be interesting!
[02:34:04] <paulej72> NC|ChromeBook: that is your problem you are logged into google on each :) if you used seperate accounts you would not have that problem :)
[02:35:06] <NC|ChromeBook> michealpwalls: no idea
[02:35:11] * NC|ChromeBook is working on getting Xfce installed
[02:35:52] <mrcoolbp> finally we have a freakin' FAQ page
[02:36:29] <chromas> FAQ yeah!
[02:36:59] <NC|ChromeBook> wow
[02:37:02] <mrcoolbp> took long enough...
[02:37:08] <NC|ChromeBook> The speakers on this are much better than my Yoga 2 Pro
[02:37:21] * NC|ChromeBook jams out to Mass Effect 2 - Suicide Mission
[02:37:30] <mrcoolbp> heh
[02:37:47] <NC|ChromeBook> I actually thought about buying a chromebook awhile ago
[02:38:06] <NC|ChromeBook> I kinda get my kicks on having an ARM laptop (this is my second one) though the processor leaves a bit to be desired
[02:38:17] <NC|ChromeBook> still, really can't complain for the price; this is cheaper than my Nexus 5
[02:41:14] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Use Trampolines to ISS Says Russian Official - http://sylnt.us - who-will-blink-first
[02:42:43] <NC|ChromeBook> Ok, got a nice terminal app so I don't need to use chrome as my terminal emulator \o/
[02:43:03] <mrcoolbp> NC|ChromeBook: have fun with your shiny
[02:43:15] <mrcoolbp> gotta run
[02:43:44] <NC|ChromeBook> mrcoolbp: cya
[02:43:48] <mrcoolbp> cya
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[02:48:41] <paulej72> NC|ChromeBook: which chromebook did you get?
[02:52:32] <NC|ChromeBook> paulej72: chromebook 11
[02:52:45] <paulej72> HP?
[02:55:33] <paulej72> NC|ChromeBook: 100 GB Google Drive cloud storage, free for two years
[02:57:03] <NC|ChromeBook> paulej72: yup
[02:57:40] <paulej72> just get a new chromebook in 2 years to continue subscription
[02:58:02] <NC|ChromeBook> paulej72: fun upgrade policy
[02:58:15] <NC|ChromeBook> almost done downloading Ubuntu
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[03:10:12] <chromas> Surely you mean CentOS
[03:10:52] <paulej72> chromas: lol
[03:15:12] <NC|ChromeBook> almost got this installed
[03:15:14] * NC|ChromeBook beats chromas
[03:15:25] <NC|ChromeBook> Xfce is running nicely, and I can flip between chromeos and xfce easily
[03:15:37] * NC|ChromeBook would like Unity, but suspects it would be too much for this machine
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[03:28:00] <NC|ChromeBook> My new system officially has a name
[03:28:02] <NC|ChromeBook> defiance
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[03:51:29] <NCommander> I've got firefox running on my chromebook
[03:51:31] <NCommander> I'm amused
[04:05:37] <NCommander> Its quite in here
[04:06:05] <paulej72> Has been like that lately.
[04:06:23] * NCommander throws nude photos up
[04:06:30] <NCommander> paulej72, :-/
[04:06:45] <paulej72> Just not of yourself NCommander
[04:06:51] <NCommander> :-=P
[04:08:09] <michealpwalls> I'd love a nice ChromeBook
[04:08:21] <swiss> NCommander: which chromebook?
[04:08:31] <paulej72> Need to get kobach to put up some irc porn
[04:08:33] <swiss> i just bought a chroembook11 for my girlfriend, it should come tomorrow
[04:08:59] <paulej72> swiss: NCommander got the same
[04:09:01] <swiss> oh, scrolled up, chromebook11.
[04:09:04] <swiss> Thoughts?
[04:09:06] <NCommander> swiss, chromebook 11, in developer mode + running xfce
[04:09:13] <NCommander> Usual joys of Ubuntu on ARM, but pretty damn usable
[04:09:20] <NCommander> One of the best keyboards I've ever used on a device this small
[04:09:24] <NCommander> (aka, I can type on it)
[04:09:35] <swiss> she's only gonna be running chromeOS
[04:09:44] <NCommander> paulej72, *grumble*, any chance I can get you to fix my SSH key in LDAP?
[04:09:47] <swiss> is that laggy at all? does the laptop feel too cheap?
[04:09:52] <NCommander> I can't recover the old one from tranquility at the moment
[04:10:10] <NCommander> swiss, not really. Its not a speed demon by any streach of the imagination, but perfectly usable
[04:10:21] <NCommander> YouTube works great, and its not noticably laggy, at least no more than a normal PC
[04:10:22] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Noun More Influential to Children than Verb - http://sylnt.us - parents-should-take-note
[04:10:22] <swiss> any issues with hd videos on youtube?
[04:10:29] <paulej72> NCommander: yes let me try
[04:10:30] <NCommander> swiss, haven't really tried TBH
[04:10:32] <swiss> do you have a chromecast?
[04:10:41] <NCommander> swiss, I don't even own a TV :-P
[04:11:52] <swiss> bummer. Wanted to get you to test that feature
[04:18:51] FoobarBazbot|afk is now known as FoobarBazbot
[04:22:13] <paulej72> NCommander: any ideas why I am getting this error channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
[04:24:20] <paulej72> NCommander: does apache auto start on helium?
[04:24:42] <NCommander> paulej72, not sure, telnet 127.0.0.1 80 on helium to check
[04:25:13] <paulej72> NCommander: not running
[04:25:54] <NCommander> apachectl start
[04:26:54] <paulej72> ok that is running, neet lo login to ldapadmin
[04:27:10] <swiss> http://i.imgur.com
[04:27:14] <swiss> i started playin it again
[04:29:43] <paulej72> NCommander: pm
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[06:03:53] <arti> greetings
[06:05:42] <swiss> hi
[06:06:01] <arti> wie gehts?
[06:22:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - WHO Warns of Increasing Antibiotic Resistance - http://sylnt.us - what-drugs-can-we-take-to-prevent-this?
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[07:52:10] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - 50th Anniversary of BASIC - http://sylnt.us - 50-print-happy-birthday-55-goto-50
[07:53:16] <chromas> Soylent Instruction Code
[08:04:15] <NCommander> chromas, SICk
[08:06:38] <chromas> You're right. I meant Big Angry Soylents Installing CentOS
[08:07:15] * chromas is disappointed in his initialism skillz
[08:08:41] <chromas> Now, is it CentOS specifically? Or all Redhat-ish distros?
[08:09:07] <NCommander> chromas, RH-ish.
[08:09:52] * chromas hides his suse ISOs
[08:25:43] * NCommander is as it his wits end
[08:26:21] <ar> hm
[08:26:58] <ar> i just realized, i'm not an admin of any server running a redhat or redhat derivative
[08:54:24] <arti> it's always fun making changes to another machine
[08:54:30] <chromas> Alright. You talked me into it. Installing Debian-style linux
[08:54:38] <arti> "oh... wait this isn't the staging server"
[09:22:14] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@724-640-25-593.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[09:22:25] * arti jumpkicks crutchy
[09:22:33] <arti> o>/
[09:22:56] * crutchy salutes by whacking himself in the forehead
[09:24:01] <arti> how's it going man?
[09:24:17] <crutchy> not bad. very busy at work
[09:24:27] <crutchy> hows you?
[09:24:28] <arti> just echo /dev/random
[09:24:42] <arti> wrapping my mind around monads
[09:24:58] <arti> been looking into socket stuff, i want to write an ircd
[09:25:24] <crutchy> you got bitten by the bug too eh
[09:25:50] <crutchy> xlefay's right into that
[09:26:01] <arti> it'll be a good little project
[09:26:15] * arti has an interview today
[09:26:16] <crutchy> sounds awesome
[09:26:20] <crutchy> ooh?
[09:26:27] <arti> yeah, this drive i do is balls
[09:26:33] <arti> 160miles round trip 2x a week
[09:26:44] <crutchy> you gunna be a software fag?
[09:26:54] <arti> yeah, like maximum faggotry
[09:27:08] <arti> a security company that's a hop skip and a jump from here
[09:27:18] <arti> deal with ddos and whatnot, i'd like to get more into the ops side of stuff
[09:27:50] <arti> they had a "submit your fav bash.org quote" on their resume email us thingy
[09:28:17] <arti> i have no idea if they're tools or what, seemed alright on the phone, going to jaw with them some more this afternoon
[09:30:24] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Student Gmail Scan Policy Reversed - http://sylnt.us - what-will-the-google-bots-do-all-day
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[09:34:47] <swiss> the bash.org quote thing would be enough to turn me off
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[09:35:43] <swiss> the only weird questions during my interview were "if you wanted to learn more about me, where would you look to figure it out/how would you go about doing it" and "What is your opinion about the privacy of online interactions"
[09:36:13] <arti> swiss: that was the whole reason for contacting them
[09:36:25] <swiss> what do you mean
[09:36:41] <arti> seem like some interesting fellows
[09:36:49] MrBluze|away is now known as MrBluze
[09:37:12] <arti> swiss: like you've only had one interview with weird questions?
[09:37:25] <swiss> uhhh
[09:37:30] <swiss> it's the only formal interview i had
[09:37:38] <arti> dat sample pool
[09:37:42] <swiss> well
[09:37:53] <swiss> i had 2 other semi-interviews
[09:38:01] <arti> "sniffing butts"
[09:38:34] <swiss> but the first one the guy offered me the job before interviewing me because i was highly recommended, the second one wasn't going to give me the job anyway because I wasn't a graduate student... then offered it to me after I fixed his prototype that was going to be late
[09:38:51] <arti> as if graduation makes a difference
[09:38:58] <swiss> well
[09:39:02] * arti has met total bozos that're double degree holders
[09:39:08] <swiss> i hadn't taken any formal electronic engineering courses
[09:39:09] <swiss> at all
[09:39:17] <swiss> and the job was as an electrical engineer
[09:39:35] <arti> just do what other people do, lie through your teeth and spend all your time talking to someone who knows their shit
[09:39:46] <arti> oh, and choose microsoft. always.
[09:39:48] <swiss> lol, that one was at a startup
[09:40:16] <swiss> oh, no, i got one other weird question at the interview for my current job
[09:40:18] <arti> swiss: just refer them to your minecraft maps
[09:40:46] <swiss> "What is the programming project that seemed like a great idea when you started, but now you realize is one of the worst ideas you had... but you finished it"
[09:40:53] <swiss> they phrased it better
[09:41:03] <arti> "the example one you had me do here"
[09:41:13] <swiss> lol, i did no in person programming
[09:41:22] <arti> some of the cooler places i've done design work for paid me for the design
[09:41:29] <arti> well, as the test project
[09:41:38] <swiss> i was phone interviewed
[09:41:44] <swiss> mine was a bash irc bot
[09:42:15] <arti> well you get people who interview well, and then suck at the job
[09:42:24] <arti> and others who are super qualified and can't talk
[09:42:28] <swiss> At the time, i was like "I know bash well... and my friends haven't written an irc bot in bash yet"
[09:42:45] <swiss> my interviewers were both people i'd be working with
[09:42:48] <swiss> not hiring managers
[09:42:58] <arti> you gotta rub them all the wrong way
[09:43:03] <swiss> both very smart
[09:43:14] <arti> "so uh, think you're smarter than a bullet"
[09:43:15] <swiss> they liked me, but i did 0 ass kissing
[09:43:31] <swiss> they asked "Do you know how to program"
[09:43:36] <arti> i dislike the executive tour, where it's round after round of those guys
[09:44:02] <swiss> me: "Fuck no. I can write a few lines of code, but I don't follow best practices, and nothing I write should be read by anyone else, ever, for their own sake"
[09:44:23] <arti> ^-- how the PST format was created
[09:44:27] <swiss> them: "give us an example of something you did code on"
[09:44:53] <swiss> me: "I revamped our jukebox server, named fookebox, to have an autoplay functionality because I got tired of people playing shitty stuff"
[09:45:03] <swiss> them: "How'd you do that"
[09:45:08] <arti> "i wiggled my fingers"
[09:45:25] <swiss> me: "I copied in tons of shit that I didn't write, changed the names of the variables to match the ones already there, and it worked"
[09:45:43] <swiss> they really liked that answer
[09:45:48] <arti> sounds like you can hack being a designer
[09:46:01] <arti> copypasta!
[09:46:08] <swiss> lol, i'm a security engineer, I don't plan on working with anything that others use
[09:46:33] <swiss> they were like: "What would the most important part of security be in your opinion?"
[09:46:43] <arti> "hiding things from users"
[09:47:04] <swiss> me: "Logging and automation. Because there's no way I should be lookign for the same shit, and doing the same stuff every day"
[09:47:09] <swiss> so thats what i do now
[09:48:04] <swiss> they asked how I would control users
[09:48:24] <arti> set mode +m
[09:48:44] <swiss> i had no real answer
[09:49:07] <swiss> I was like "I hear they have GPO and shit on windows. I'd rather just find them when they violate the rules and take away their web proxy privileges
[09:49:17] <swiss> that'll teach them to fuck around with the security team"
[09:51:07] <arti> heh, sounds like a challenge
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[10:21:07] <arti> so how does the health/attack in irpg work
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[11:09:15] <prospectacle> evening soylent
[11:13:27] * arti waves at prospectacle
[11:15:50] <swiss> i should sleep
[11:15:56] <swiss> i have to be at work in 6 houors
[11:16:00] <prospectacle> i hear it's good for your health
[11:16:16] <arti> i think caffeine will be in your future
[11:16:16] <prospectacle> did you get your chromebook yet, swiss?
[11:22:11] <swiss> nah, comes tonight
[11:22:17] <swiss> arti: i don't caffeine
[11:22:28] <prospectacle> wow, that must be hard
[11:22:36] <swiss> not relaly
[11:22:42] <swiss> don't start, you don't have issues
[11:22:44] <prospectacle> although i guess once you develop a tolerance, having caffeine is not much different to not having it and not being addicted
[11:22:48] <prospectacle> yeah
[11:23:15] <prospectacle> does anyone remember that smurfs episode where they all got addicted to the energy orb?
[11:23:24] <swiss> if i have something with a higher concentration of caffeine (coffee/energy drink) or I have a lot of caffeine (multiple sodas) I fell pretty sick
[11:23:29] <prospectacle> who knew they were talking about drugs
[11:23:32] <swiss> eel*
[11:23:35] <swiss> feel*
[11:24:52] <prospectacle> although I think they were talking about speed or cocaine, not coffee
[11:25:22] <swiss> idk, how many people are addicted to caffeine
[11:25:35] <prospectacle> i think it's 80-90%
[11:25:41] <prospectacle> of adults anyway
[11:25:58] <swiss> yeah... i feel sorry for all the people at work with a tolerence on it
[11:26:03] <swiss> and a dependence
[11:26:22] <swiss> cause what happens when it's not there
[11:26:37] <prospectacle> yeah, good thing it's so cheap and plentiful.
[11:26:39] <prospectacle> I love it, personally
[11:26:42] <swiss> me... i can feel awake from a glass of water
[11:26:52] <prospectacle> Although if you use too much it stops working
[11:26:53] <swiss> or food
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[11:42:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Canadian Law Enforcement Makes a Request for Telco Subscriber Data Every 27 Seconds - http://sylnt.us - no-warrants-necessary
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[13:11:10] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Graphene Could be Dangerous to Humans - http://sylnt.us - you-don't-get-something-for-nothing
[13:11:28] <prospectacle> hi crutchy, how's tricks?
[13:11:45] <crutchy> hey prospectacle
[13:11:51] <crutchy> not bad
[13:11:53] <crutchy> you?
[13:12:06] <prospectacle> good
[13:12:21] <prospectacle> I'm drinkin wine and watching sitcoms
[13:12:26] <crutchy> cool
[13:12:30] <MrBluze> hi prospectacle
[13:12:31] <crutchy> red/white?
[13:12:31] <prospectacle> Also I bought a new domain.
[13:12:35] <MrBluze> im drinking ginger beer
[13:12:39] <prospectacle> http://masterplanmachine.com
[13:12:42] <prospectacle> doesn't do anything yet
[13:12:42] <MrBluze> oh.. what u buy??
[13:12:44] <crutchy> lol
[13:12:45] <MrBluze> lol nice
[13:12:45] <prospectacle> Hi MrBluze
[13:12:50] <crutchy> cool!!!
[13:12:54] <MrBluze> im keeping firingsquid for myself
[13:12:56] <MrBluze> gonna use that for something
[13:13:06] <MrBluze> and the bacon names i think will be finding some purpose too ;)
[13:13:17] <crutchy> selling bacon?
[13:13:30] <MrBluze> i dun fink so somehow
[13:13:34] <MrBluze> havent decided .. depends
[13:13:34] <prospectacle> MrBluze, nice. FiringSquid would be a great name for like a "cool links" aggregator, which in my opinion is not overdone but not done properly yet
[13:13:39] <crutchy> or selling bacon domains?
[13:14:01] <MrBluze> lol selling bacon domains is a possibility
[13:14:05] <MrBluze> but dailybacon .. that's awesome
[13:14:09] <crutchy> you could start a business... MrBluze's Domain Park
[13:14:12] <crutchy> :-D
[13:14:14] <chromas> Please help us find a cure for doubleplus baconoma
[13:14:14] * MrBluze laughs
[13:14:20] <prospectacle> MrBluze, actually firingsquid has so many possible connotations/interpretations, you could use it for almost anything
[13:14:26] <MrBluze> yeah donate your plusses
[13:14:42] <prospectacle> politics, business, technology
[13:14:47] <MrBluze> prospectacle indeed .. i have wanted to buy those domains for ages and never got round to it .. was surprised they were still available
[13:14:49] <prospectacle> cat videos
[13:14:58] <MrBluze> cat videos.. and mugs and posters
[13:15:08] <MrBluze> and cats looking at prawns cooking in a bowl
[13:15:14] <crutchy> and miley cirus paraphernalia
[13:15:19] * MrBluze laughs
[13:15:21] <prospectacle> it's hard to find any that aren't long and cumbersome
[13:16:21] <MrBluze> i like masterplanmachine
[13:17:08] <MrBluze> u can have a museum of master plans
[13:17:17] <prospectacle> lol
[13:17:21] <prospectacle> it's for my todo-list manager
[13:17:25] <MrBluze> all kinds of goose steppers and humpbacked hobblers
[13:17:30] <prospectacle> Hang on I'll put it up and you can see
[13:18:14] <MrBluze> okay
[13:18:22] <MrBluze> u'll get to spy on everyone's todo lists
[13:18:41] <MrBluze> 'buy batteries for dildo, get milk, feed cat, pick up kids from school'
[13:18:42] <prospectacle> well the idea is people download the source code
[13:18:46] <prospectacle> but maybe spying is more profitable
[13:18:47] <prospectacle> nice one
[13:18:50] <MrBluze> ohh.. ok
[13:19:09] <MrBluze> firingsquid is kind of like shooting people down with ink
[13:19:17] <MrBluze> sort of showing things up by writing about them
[13:19:32] <prospectacle> ok it's up
[13:19:37] <prospectacle> http://masterplanmachine.com
[13:20:05] <MrBluze> oh.. its nice
[13:20:16] <prospectacle> it's not ready yet, but by way of illustration....
[13:20:21] <prospectacle> when it's properly ready I'll do a journal post
[13:20:27] <prospectacle> it's almost there.
[13:20:36] <MrBluze> a javascript page
[13:20:46] <MrBluze> nice
[13:20:49] <prospectacle> yeah lots of javascript
[13:20:57] <prospectacle> but what are you gonna do. For some things it's necessary.
[13:21:09] <MrBluze> yeah true
[13:21:12] <prospectacle> all my own though. no jquery or mootools or anything
[13:21:26] <MrBluze> thats the thing i like about it
[13:21:27] <MrBluze> i saw that
[13:21:43] <MrBluze> i'll probably take shortcuts wherever possible on mine
[13:21:53] <MrBluze> which will make it very insecure and probably useless
[13:22:17] <crutchy> ah so you're going with wordpress
[13:22:34] <MrBluze> oh .. lol NO
[13:22:34] <crutchy> :-P
[13:22:37] <prospectacle> well, I grudgingly admit that some of the libraries are probably getting very mature, and have been widely used and tested
[13:22:39] * prospectacle gags
[13:22:53] <MrBluze> jquery is .. ok
[13:23:09] <prospectacle> deep down I can't help but detest large libraries for doing basic things
[13:23:18] <crutchy> monkeywrench or whatever its called sounds interesting
[13:23:37] <MrBluze> i totally agree with u prospectacle
[13:23:37] <prospectacle> it makes no sense though, on the other end, e.g. php, I love how many libraries it has, it's the main appeal. With javascript though, I'm like, "just write it yourself, dumbarse"
[13:23:48] <MrBluze> well ..
[13:23:50] <MrBluze> take c++
[13:23:52] <MrBluze> or c
[13:23:55] <MrBluze> u have no libraries really
[13:24:01] <MrBluze> and u can include 1000 of them, if u want
[13:24:02] <prospectacle> I guess it's because you have to download javascript, and it makes the page bloated and unwieldy
[13:24:04] <MrBluze> but the compiler only uses what u use
[13:24:05] <prospectacle> wasting my time.
[13:24:28] <crutchy> delphi++
[13:24:28] <deadpeas> karma - delphi: 4
[13:24:32] <prospectacle> mrbluze, true, it's more selective and efficient
[13:24:38] <crutchy> wtf... deadpeas?
[13:24:39] <MrBluze> yup
[13:24:50] <MrBluze> php on the other hand is like basic (happy birthday)
[13:24:57] <prospectacle> yes happy birthday basic
[13:25:05] <MrBluze> u got it all there to use, it's all in memory, and .. well .. thats cool
[13:25:08] <prospectacle> i learned it when i was seven and made little ascii animations
[13:25:14] <MrBluze> cause u basically want to just write some quick shit and have it work
[13:25:32] <MrBluze> lol yes.. at age 10 i wrote a bouncing ball program with basic using sin()
[13:25:47] <crutchy> visual basic... without the visual
[13:25:51] <MrBluze> and then improved it using acceleration etc
[13:25:58] <prospectacle> wow, nice, I found one like that in the sample programs, but never mastered it.
[13:26:04] <prospectacle> who remembers gorilla?
[13:26:09] <MrBluze> lol yes
[13:26:20] <prospectacle> that was great
[13:26:28] <crutchy> saw one in a zoo once... stinky fucker
[13:26:31] <MrBluze> wrote a snake game for basic too
[13:26:34] <MrBluze> lol
[13:26:41] <MrBluze> just dont share a prison cell with one if u can avoid it
[13:26:58] <prospectacle> snake is a cool game. remember when all phones came with snake
[13:27:00] <prospectacle> those were the days
[13:27:03] <crutchy> mmm that is good advice mrbluze
[13:27:09] * prospectacle gets nostalgic when he drinks
[13:27:19] <MrBluze> yeah nokia also featured snake 2
[13:27:26] <MrBluze> which was worse than snake 1
[13:27:29] <crutchy> prospectacle: watch tron: legacy
[13:27:42] <prospectacle> nokia will be in the history books. Top dog to microsoft's bitch
[13:27:55] <prospectacle> i am amazed how bad they messed up their advantage
[13:28:05] <MrBluze> .. if u look at how they started
[13:28:15] <MrBluze> they were a bunch of honest people who got pwned
[13:28:31] <crutchy> i think nokia still sell a shitload of non-smart phones, especially in third world countries
[13:28:37] <MrBluze> in a world of theivery, intelligence isnt enough
[13:29:11] <prospectacle> did you guys read the ars technica story about the "pirates of analog alley"?
[13:29:28] <prospectacle> pretty interesting parallels from the 1890s-1920s
[13:29:29] <crutchy> sounds kinda gay
[13:30:00] <prospectacle> http://arstechnica.com
[13:30:23] <crutchy> is that the one about the guys that set up shop in an old maccas or something?
[13:30:37] <MrBluze> lol
[13:30:37] <crutchy> (my link opener thingy doesn't work)
[13:30:50] <prospectacle> lol
[13:30:52] <MrBluze> didnt someone call silicon valley by another name?
[13:30:57] <MrBluze> something like listening valley
[13:31:00] <prospectacle> no it's before maccas existed
[13:31:04] <MrBluze> ie: full of spooks
[13:33:10] <MrBluze> interesting article, prospectacle
[13:33:55] <prospectacle> Yeah, I hadn't heard of most of those people, but it sounds like they were revolutionary at their time
[13:34:01] <prospectacle> makes you think.
[13:34:11] <MrBluze> yup
[13:34:23] <MrBluze> well most things are not accidents
[13:34:34] <MrBluze> they usually have serious money behind them or they dont happen
[13:34:55] <MrBluze> poor boy got lucky and now a billionaire is all bs
[13:35:18] <prospectacle> I think a prize based economy would be interesting. All IP is free, but there is serious prize money for whoever invents the best X each month.
[13:35:35] <MrBluze> yeah
[13:35:38] <prospectacle> Probably cheaper for society than patent/copyright enforcement allowed by governments these days
[13:35:43] <prospectacle> and more profitable.
[13:36:03] <MrBluze> im still onto the distributionist model .. tho a friend pointed out how it can be corrupted also .. but maybe to a lesser extent
[13:36:25] <prospectacle> mrbluze, i think it has a place as a vital part of a better economy, but maybe not the only part.
[13:36:45] <MrBluze> yeah not the only part
[13:36:48] <prospectacle> mrbluze, after thinking govt is evil and uncessary for many years I decied it's necessary as a baseline, on which better systems can thrive.
[13:36:50] <MrBluze> otherwise u cant have roads and rail
[13:37:00] <MrBluze> and all that stuff
[13:37:14] <MrBluze> and reserved river frontage and free beaches
[13:37:19] <prospectacle> yes, general rule of law, as well, property protection without armed guards everywhere
[13:37:28] <MrBluze> yep .. agreed
[13:37:33] <MrBluze> needs to be a kingdom i think
[13:37:51] <MrBluze> but the basic rule is .. if you are responsible, u should be very afraid
[13:38:13] <prospectacle> a kingdom might be vulnerable if next king is retarded
[13:38:22] <MrBluze> not like democracies where 'ah who gives a shit, in 3 years ill be at the beach and retired.. ill take the bribe'
[13:38:32] <prospectacle> it's hard to make a good electoral/vote counting system, but i think if you can get that right, you would get stable and good leadership
[13:38:42] <MrBluze> a democracy is vulnerable when sucessive presidents are retarded
[13:38:47] <prospectacle> i have no evidence for this, but i believe it
[13:38:59] <prospectacle> problem with most democracies is bad electoral systems
[13:39:06] <MrBluze> bad electoral systems partly
[13:39:07] <prospectacle> e.g. first past the vote, instant-runoff, etc.
[13:39:10] <MrBluze> but lack of accontability
[13:39:25] <MrBluze> thing about kings is they can get knocked off
[13:39:30] <prospectacle> yes, you need a (sustainable) way to fire governments mid-term when necessary
[13:39:33] <MrBluze> and they are stuck there for life so had better do a good job
[13:39:55] <MrBluze> .. its lack of ownership that sinks stuff.. and lawyers
[13:40:22] <prospectacle> i think of democracy as like a co-op. All voters are equal shareholders/members. The government works for them. So there needs ot be a way to fire them when necessary
[13:40:28] <crutchy> when i was younger i had an idea for a better world
[13:40:38] <MrBluze> what was your idea, crutchy?
[13:40:43] <prospectacle> crutchy, don't abandon it completely, just refine it
[13:41:14] <crutchy> probably not very original, but i liked the idea of building space station colonies and each space station could go off and do its own thing or band with other space stations
[13:41:28] <crutchy> would be just as corruptable as anything we have now
[13:41:35] <crutchy> and wars would ensue
[13:41:46] <prospectacle> crutchy, yes, a bit more free political experimentation would be very informative.
[13:41:52] <crutchy> but it was a cool dream
[13:42:00] <prospectacle> crutchy, there are merits to your idea, but maybe it can be achieved in safer, more immediate ways
[13:42:06] <MrBluze> i remember a website where every member was a ministar for something
[13:42:13] <MrBluze> some kind of virtual nation
[13:42:14] <crutchy> i just like space :-P
[13:42:16] <prospectacle> mrbluze, was it soylentnews.org?
[13:42:28] <MrBluze> prospectacle: yeah but it had a better name
[13:42:33] <MrBluze> it didnt have a name that reminded me of a toilet
[13:42:41] <prospectacle> oh, speaking of which. What's the hold up getting all the domain names after the vote?
[13:42:42] <crutchy> can i be the minister of the redundant department of redundancy?
[13:42:46] <prospectacle> I guess it can't be much longer now
[13:42:54] * MrBluze is noticing alcohol is making him speak his mind a bit too much
[13:43:05] <prospectacle> mrbluze, i reckon we'll get a better name
[13:43:12] <MrBluze> i reckon we might not
[13:43:15] <prospectacle> I voted for ionews (and others), what did you guys put first?
[13:43:22] <MrBluze> but if we get a shit name, or the same name, u can be sure i wont be here
[13:43:29] <MrBluze> i didnt vote
[13:43:36] <crutchy> i'm going to go cook a couple of pieces of bovine arse
[13:43:40] <crutchy> brb
[13:43:42] <prospectacle> mrbluze, fair enough. I remain optimistic
[13:43:46] <MrBluze> yum
[13:43:49] <MrBluze> i like optimism
[13:43:55] <MrBluze> i dont have a lot of it, but i like it
[13:43:59] <prospectacle> crutchy, don't you know it's bad manners to use accurate words to describe food?
[13:44:23] <prospectacle> as soon as an animal dies, it becomes french
[13:44:28] <prospectacle> "beef"
[13:44:32] <MrBluze> baconne
[13:44:38] <prospectacle> lol
[13:44:47] <prospectacle> good one
[13:45:12] <prospectacle> balonie
[13:45:24] <MrBluze> yup
[13:45:31] <MrBluze> anyone remmeber hushmail?
[13:45:39] <prospectacle> i remember hearing about it
[13:45:47] <prospectacle> were they encrypted, etc?
[13:45:52] <MrBluze> back in the day it had a javascript encryption
[13:46:05] <MrBluze> the server just handled the encrypted message
[13:46:21] <MrBluze> and then they got a knock on the door and defaulted to server side encryption
[13:46:48] <prospectacle> mrbluze ,that's cool. I've thought of trying js encryption. Seemed hard, but I thought it would be a good idea
[13:46:52] <MrBluze> .. but i think a webmail plugin that encrypts stuff would be good
[13:47:10] <prospectacle> mrbluze, I assume the knockers on the door thought server-side would be easier to crack?
[13:47:11] <MrBluze> well source code for things like rsa and rijndael in C is available
[13:47:17] <MrBluze> i've seen java source too i suppose
[13:47:27] <MrBluze> well server-side means u can just send the plaintext to your handlers first
[13:47:33] <prospectacle> mrbluze, yes, no reason you can't have end to end encryption. Servers don't/shouldn't care what the content is
[13:47:53] <prospectacle> I mean if it's just a messaging service
[13:48:00] <MrBluze> .. messaging
[13:48:02] <MrBluze> or anything
[13:48:08] <MrBluze> .. and everything
[13:48:31] <MrBluze> hence knocks on doors
[13:48:53] <prospectacle> well I mean if it's a site that needs to do db lookups like "where keywords='economics'" it can't be encrypted
[13:49:04] <MrBluze> yeah but
[13:49:11] <MrBluze> if it's a site where members want to communicate
[13:49:15] <prospectacle> but if you're just sending messages to your friends or subscribers, it's ok
[13:49:30] <MrBluze> say u want to talk to your wife about bank stuff while on holiday
[13:49:39] <prospectacle> it's funny how non-unified sending messages is
[13:49:42] <MrBluze> then email isnt gonna cut it
[13:49:52] <MrBluze> nor is microsoft-skype
[13:50:01] <prospectacle> irc is just sending messages to the same location. Skype is just like irc with only one two users in the room. Same with email, but it keeps a record.
[13:50:13] <prospectacle> If someone makes a unified protocol they'll go down in history
[13:50:15] <MrBluze> skype keeps a record dont forget
[13:50:19] <prospectacle> yes
[13:50:25] <prospectacle> I mean functionally
[13:50:29] <MrBluze> yes
[13:50:40] <MrBluze> but if u make email that is end to end encrypted
[13:50:44] <MrBluze> and file sharing and everything
[13:50:50] <prospectacle> if someone makes a one/many/public/private messaging system, they'll win the internet
[13:50:50] <MrBluze> that fixes the cloud
[13:51:00] <MrBluze> well, why don't WE
[13:51:00] <prospectacle> as long as it's free/distribute/encrypted
[13:51:05] <prospectacle> ok let's do it
[13:51:16] * MrBluze nods
[13:51:20] <prospectacle> how do you establish trust? i guess you could add a friend's key manually
[13:51:29] <MrBluze> trust isnt our problem
[13:51:33] <MrBluze> its the user's problem
[13:51:41] <MrBluze> we show we dont have any trust, not even ourselves
[13:51:51] <prospectacle> but lets say I want to add you as a trusted source. How do I know you're mrbluze, and add your key to my register of "accept messages from this person"?
[13:51:56] <prospectacle> hmm
[13:51:57] <MrBluze> if two people meet in a cafe and share keys, thats up to them
[13:52:10] <MrBluze> u need to meet in person
[13:52:17] <MrBluze> or communicate in a way the both of u trust
[13:52:37] <prospectacle> ok, that could work. Then you could add a friend-of-a-friend, because your first vouches for them
[13:52:42] <MrBluze> or choose someone u trust
[13:52:45] <MrBluze> and so on
[13:52:46] <MrBluze> yes
[13:52:56] <MrBluze> anyone can be a certifying authority
[13:53:00] <MrBluze> its up to you to trust him/her
[13:53:12] <prospectacle> I mean if it's only six degrees of separation around the world, then it wouldn't take long to be talking to people on the other side of the world who know someone who knows someone who you know
[13:53:22] <MrBluze> bingo :)
[13:53:41] <prospectacle> Ok so you can only add people you've met and got a key, from, and then you can add people they have in their list, as long as you say "yes I accept this person who my friend accepts"
[13:53:44] <prospectacle> that's doable
[13:54:05] <MrBluze> yep .. and the site just handles the mail
[13:54:07] <prospectacle> how do you handle "send this to only these people" vs "send this to an on-going discussion list" vs "send this to only this person"?
[13:54:21] <MrBluze> u can send it to anyone
[13:54:26] <MrBluze> but they cant open it unless they have a key
[13:54:27] <prospectacle> the first and last seem easy
[13:54:38] <prospectacle> but how do you handle "forums" if you would
[13:54:45] <prospectacle> if you will
[13:54:48] <MrBluze> oh
[13:55:02] <MrBluze> i have ideas for that
[13:55:04] <MrBluze> :)
[13:55:06] <prospectacle> ok, go
[13:55:33] <MrBluze> keys can be one to many
[13:55:38] <MrBluze> .. that's it :)
[13:55:49] <prospectacle> well encryption is not the problem, as I see it, it's hosting.
[13:56:08] <MrBluze> ah for that u need a register of keys
[13:56:12] <prospectacle> I send a message to "soylentnews' for want of a better words. Which consists of who? who is allowed to subscribe, and where is the message sent?
[13:56:27] <MrBluze> the owner of the message determines who the readers are
[13:56:30] <prospectacle> who controls the group, and where is the archive hosted?
[13:56:48] <prospectacle> I think "groups" need to work as a single entity, somehow. Not sure how
[13:56:49] <MrBluze> u pick a public key that is individual or group
[13:56:53] <MrBluze> yes
[13:57:03] <MrBluze> u share keys with groups
[13:57:26] <MrBluze> but u know, a secret is a thing that spreads from one person to another at a time
[13:57:35] <MrBluze> as opposed to public, where it spreads straight away
[13:57:56] -!- TheMightyBuzzard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:57:58] <MrBluze> .. so forums cannot be kept safer than the weakest person
[13:58:37] <prospectacle> no, reading is not a problem as such. If anyone on the group wants to share the messages of the group, you can't stop them. But how do you control who can post to a group.
[13:58:47] <prospectacle> We don't want everyone adding everyone else manually when they decide to "join group"
[13:59:04] <MrBluze> oh
[13:59:15] <MrBluze> give the groups an impossible url
[13:59:32] <MrBluze> like onion does
[13:59:40] <prospectacle> So I join soylent news, with our great new messaging system. Is soylnet news a person? I guess os they have their own account. ACtually that makes sense
[13:59:51] <prospectacle> A group is just a person, controlled (sockpuppeted) by another person.
[13:59:54] <MrBluze> u share the url with the key
[14:00:02] <MrBluze> and the url is a hash of its name or whatever
[14:00:26] <prospectacle> Everyone says " I trust this person (group) to receive my messge, and send me message" and the person controlling the group says "every message i (this group) receives I'll send it to this list of people"
[14:00:39] <MrBluze> yep
[14:00:43] <prospectacle> ok solved
[14:00:43] <MrBluze> well u hide the group firstly
[14:00:51] <MrBluze> and then make it readable only by those with the key
[14:00:59] <MrBluze> so if it gets found, too bad
[14:01:05] <MrBluze> u could at best spam it not knowing what it contains
[14:01:23] <MrBluze> but a good reader will filter the spam as it is unreadable
[14:01:30] <prospectacle> yeah, people can apply, as usual, and if they're accepted you send them the key
[14:01:48] <MrBluze> well no one needs to know the forum even exists
[14:01:49] <prospectacle> I guess you could send them a one-person key, which means 'this key came from this person to this group"
[14:01:54] <MrBluze> unless u pre-share the key with them
[14:02:08] <MrBluze> .. something along those lines
[14:02:18] <MrBluze> but yeah if its open and ubiquitous
[14:02:19] <prospectacle> is that even possible? I know there are "from this person" keys and "to this person" keys (public/private), but are there "onlyn from alice and only to bob" key systems?
[14:02:26] <prospectacle> maybe that's what we need to invent
[14:02:31] <prospectacle> any mathematicians around?
[14:02:33] <MrBluze> i dunno about that
[14:02:43] <MrBluze> what i know is u can sign stuff
[14:02:53] <MrBluze> u can encrypt using half a key that the other person needs half a key to decrypt
[14:02:59] <prospectacle> yes, that's public/private keys
[14:03:06] <MrBluze> yes
[14:03:13] <MrBluze> and 'u' can be a group
[14:03:14] <prospectacle> but public key just means "you know I wrote this, if you use this key" it doesn't specify who received it.
[14:03:17] <MrBluze> and 'they' can be a group
[14:03:34] <MrBluze> well public key can involve encryption also
[14:03:48] <MrBluze> u can read this if u have the other half of the key
[14:03:56] <prospectacle> Yes. Ok let's take it slow, since we've both been drinking.
[14:04:10] <MrBluze> but groups mean pre-shared key
[14:04:11] <prospectacle> I sign up for "awesomeforum.com", and I receive a key that lets me post to it
[14:04:12] <MrBluze> thats all
[14:04:17] <FoobarBazbot_> prospectacle: you sign with your private key, then encrypt with the recipient's public key
[14:04:26] <prospectacle> this key must be unique to me (both sending an receiving)
[14:04:41] <prospectacle> foobarbazbot, makes sense
[14:04:49] <FoobarBazbot_> recipient decrypts with their private key, then verifies with your public key
[14:05:00] <prospectacle> so the forum keeps a list of who can send it to it, and if it's encrypted with the groups public and a users private key, then it's ok
[14:05:07] <prospectacle> foobar, thanks that is a good idea
[14:05:54] <MrBluze> yeah.. like that
[14:06:23] <MrBluze> i also had ideas for a part-time pad (as opposed to one-time-pad)
[14:06:37] <prospectacle> mrbluze, that's all we need for the engine, now we just need the gui. I propose a web-page/php, as it's universal. Laid out like a web-interface. Groups are just "contacts" perhaps in a different colour.
[14:06:42] <prospectacle> mrbluze, go on...
[14:06:56] <MrBluze> yeah the gui should just be a browser based thing
[14:07:15] <MrBluze> oh.. part time pad is a way of partially encrypting your stuff using a one time pad
[14:07:29] <MrBluze> .. a running salt of sorts
[14:07:39] <prospectacle> how would that be used in practice?
[14:07:50] <MrBluze> you take a packet of 1024 bytes, say
[14:07:58] <MrBluze> 1/4 of those bytes are encrypted using the one time pad
[14:08:11] <MrBluze> 1/4 of those bytes contain the next lot of one-time pad for future use
[14:08:20] <MrBluze> 1/2 of the bytes are encrypted using the keys
[14:08:49] <MrBluze> and using another algorithm u can work out which of those bytes belong to what
[14:09:23] <MrBluze> so if you have 2048 bytes, the second packet of bytes gets context from the first lot
[14:09:43] <prospectacle> so is this a time-delay message, or what? I'm not yet seeing the purpose of this multi-layer encryption
[14:10:01] <MrBluze> ok, say you dont trust rsa
[14:10:09] <MrBluze> but u are using it
[14:10:42] <MrBluze> or you dont trust something else about your crytpo. .maybe the cpu's rng
[14:11:02] <MrBluze> if people when they meet in person share a bunch of one time pad
[14:11:28] <MrBluze> it can be made to stretch for nearly forever using this kind of approach
[14:11:38] <MrBluze> even if it's just 1mb of it
[14:11:40] * crutchy is much happier now that he has his lips around a hot piece of arse
[14:12:13] <prospectacle> Oh I see. So you share some info that allows you to speak only to each other for much longer than a one-time pad should allow by itself?
[14:12:22] <MrBluze> yes
[14:12:31] <prospectacle> crutchy keeps the conversation classy
[14:12:42] <crutchy> :-D
[14:12:45] <prospectacle> mrbluze, that's a really clever idea. probably a v2 thing, though.
[14:12:46] <MrBluze> im just burping up some ginger flavoured co2
[14:13:08] <MrBluze> well the weakness of internet crypto is it's internet crypto
[14:13:14] <MrBluze> and not multi-net
[14:13:27] <prospectacle> so v1 imo, we need person to person, person to list, and person to group.
[14:13:36] <MrBluze> if u can spoil the internet crypto with some nasty sneakernet salt.. u win
[14:13:49] <MrBluze> no supercomputer can beat a one time pad :) :) :)
[14:13:54] <prospectacle> if you can do that, you get a base platform on which other advance features (super extended one time pad) can be added
[14:13:58] -!- TheMightyBuzzard [TheMightyBuzzard!~bob@628-747-682-781.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Soylent
[14:14:03] <MrBluze> yes
[14:14:12] <MrBluze> v1 can be person to person only
[14:14:14] <MrBluze> it's already 99% of uses
[14:14:29] <crutchy> would be much more secure if we took the internet out of the picture
[14:14:49] <MrBluze> so..
[14:15:02] <MrBluze> oh yes, indeed crutchy
[14:15:03] <prospectacle> right, so do you have to run it on your own server?
[14:15:19] <prospectacle> I guess so. I mean if we're only defining the protocol to start with, then it's up to you to handle the decryption/display/formatting
[14:15:25] <MrBluze> well release the server code, the javascript, the whole lot
[14:15:31] <MrBluze> and people can plug it into all their sites
[14:15:32] <prospectacle> yes, release the code, for user
[14:15:38] <prospectacle> s/user/sure/
[14:15:39] <SedBot> <prospectacle> yes, release the code, for sure
[14:15:50] <MrBluze> and then watch the buggers squirm hehe
[14:15:52] <prospectacle> same letters, lol
[14:16:49] <prospectacle> yeah, well I think they wouldn't notice until it's too late
[14:17:10] <MrBluze> maybe maybe not
[14:17:17] <prospectacle> so what is a good public/private key encryption library that comes standard in php? If we can find one of those, we can get started
[14:17:24] <prospectacle> well I can
[14:17:26] <MrBluze> but crypto is now ubiquitous
[14:17:27] <MrBluze> and if we dont do it someone will anyway
[14:17:34] <MrBluze> mcrypt is there
[14:17:42] <MrBluze> but this has to be handled with js
[14:17:52] <prospectacle> mrbluze, not if you run it on your own server
[14:18:03] <MrBluze> the crypto has to be client side
[14:18:04] <prospectacle> you can do whatever, and then send the base64 encoded result to whoever
[14:18:13] <prospectacle> php can be a client, if necessary
[14:18:22] <MrBluze> hmm yes it can
[14:18:22] <prospectacle> but yes, better as js, you're right
[14:18:24] <MrBluze> but then it may as well be c
[14:18:31] <MrBluze> and thats already easy
[14:18:33] <crutchy> roll your own?
[14:18:37] <MrBluze> u have gpg
[14:18:39] <prospectacle> mrbluze, well I can't write c very good. and php comes with so many libraries
[14:18:48] <prospectacle> pgp?
[14:18:56] <crutchy> make it really nasty and slow
[14:19:03] <prospectacle> crutchy, I agree, but would be easier to spread/use if it's base don a standard library
[14:19:11] <MrBluze> ... the server side is a message handler, a tidy interfaec, and wahtever
[14:19:21] <MrBluze> but the client side is a crypto/decrypto engine
[14:19:43] <MrBluze> and possibly a key generator client side also
[14:19:44] <prospectacle> mrbluze ,yes, server is just a point to point mechanism. You log in, request messages for a particular user id. you can get them but can only decrypt them if you really are that user.
[14:19:54] <MrBluze> yes
[14:20:10] <MrBluze> so u dont need any crypto libraries in php
[14:20:14] <MrBluze> need them in js
[14:20:24] <prospectacle> well whatever language, you need it before it reaches the server
[14:20:34] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:20:41] <prospectacle> could be php. I only suggest that becuase js has no built-in libraries, whereas php has a million.
[14:20:43] <MrBluze> if it's not js, u have to write an app
[14:20:46] <crutchy> binary client?
[14:20:50] <prospectacle> People can run php on their client, and send the result to a server.
[14:20:58] <MrBluze> but js is good because people can read it for themselves
[14:21:05] <crutchy> (kind of like a specialised browser wrapper)
[14:21:07] <prospectacle> I mean people can run a localhost apache, and it can send _POST requests to a specified server
[14:21:07] <MrBluze> its open
[14:21:26] <prospectacle> for the first version (or 0.1 version) at least
[14:21:42] <prospectacle> then we can translate it to js so people can do it in their browser, without installing wamp
[14:22:06] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - OpenSSH No Longer has to Depend on OpenSSL - http://sylnt.us - its-progress
[14:22:22] <MrBluze> but if you use js, u dont need to tie it to a high powered device
[14:22:30] <prospectacle> mrbluze, true.
[14:22:34] <MrBluze> i dont do js much
[14:22:42] <prospectacle> probably whatever encryption system we choose, someone has written a js version
[14:22:44] <prospectacle> just need to find it
[14:22:45] <MrBluze> but its something to research
[14:22:48] <MrBluze> yes
[14:23:11] * prospectacle reads about public key cryptography on wikipedia
[14:23:12] <MrBluze> http://ri.search.yahoo.com
[14:23:25] <MrBluze> ignore that
[14:23:30] <MrBluze> http://www.hanewin.net
[14:23:44] <prospectacle> nice
[14:24:33] <prospectacle> I think this may be doable
[14:24:49] <prospectacle> The beauty of it is, the transportation mechanism doesn't matter
[14:24:51] * MrBluze nods
[14:25:00] <prospectacle> I could post it on irc, or pastebin, or a wikipedia user page
[14:25:05] <MrBluze> once u get the basics sorted.. make keys, use them
[14:25:07] <prospectacle> only the right people can read it
[14:25:08] <crutchy> u need something that requires a decent graphics card to encrypt/decrypt with the keys, so that without them its impractical
[14:25:13] <crutchy> :-P
[14:25:16] <MrBluze> lol crutchy
[14:25:25] <prospectacle> yeah, raise the bar
[14:25:34] <MrBluze> something like an abacus
[14:25:34] <prospectacle> that'll teach them
[14:26:04] <crutchy> make it turn "hello world" into a 4 mb string of jibberish
[14:26:13] <MrBluze> lol
[14:26:28] <MrBluze> the part-time-pad thing is just because i dont trust rijndael
[14:26:44] <MrBluze> and one time pads are too expensive
[14:27:04] -!- weeds [weeds!~4118a13c@cwz-29-45-637-17.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[14:27:19] <prospectacle> ok so you have only three entities: Users, Lists, (which are just lists of users), and Groups (which are owned by a user, but have a different key, and have an associated list of subscribers).
[14:27:40] <MrBluze> yep
[14:27:52] <prospectacle> users accept each other, lists are lists of accepted users, and groups accept a list of users who can both send and receive all messages for the group.
[14:27:57] <crutchy> wow that was the best arse i've eaten for a while
[14:28:05] <crutchy> a bit fat though
[14:28:07] <MrBluze> dont tell the missus lol
[14:28:10] * MrBluze laughs
[14:28:38] <prospectacle> Then you send a message that's formatted like "from(user/group): xxxx, to:(list/user/group)xxxx, message:ysaojfsalkjfasljfaslf234r534ljwlkh"
[14:28:51] <MrBluze> not even
[14:28:51] <prospectacle> too easy
[14:28:59] <MrBluze> from (hashed user) to (hashed list name)
[14:29:03] <crutchy> what can i expect for something i picked up in coles :-P
[14:29:16] <MrBluze> tbh woolies has better meat
[14:29:19] <prospectacle> how do you has the to: user?
[14:29:24] <MrBluze> for whatever eason their deluxe steaks are better
[14:29:25] <prospectacle> s/has/hash/
[14:29:26] <SedBot> <prospectacle> how do you hash the to: user?
[14:29:38] <crutchy> with bongd
[14:29:42] <MrBluze> prospectacle: the same way u encrypt the message
[14:29:52] <MrBluze> .. maybe
[14:29:55] <MrBluze> i dunno for sure
[14:30:03] <prospectacle> mrbluze, let me rephrase. How do you hash both the to and the from. You need to know one to decrypt the other.
[14:30:13] <MrBluze> yeah that part maybe think a bit more about
[14:30:21] <MrBluze> its one thing to encrypt the message
[14:30:29] <MrBluze> another thing to obfuscate the relationship
[14:30:53] <prospectacle> maybe only to: has to be in plaintext. The from: and msg: can be encrypted.
[14:31:05] <prospectacle> from can be anyone on the users list of approved senders
[14:31:19] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:31:26] <MrBluze> the from indicates which key to use
[14:31:46] <MrBluze> but in general, such information needn't be plaintxt either
[14:31:57] <MrBluze> althoug someone analysing everything will work out traffic patterns nonetheless
[14:32:10] <prospectacle> it can be all: foreach ($approved_sender as $sender) {if (i_can_decrypt($msg, $sender->key)) show_message($msg, $sender->key); }
[14:32:37] <prospectacle> then even if you have a thousand approved senders (and how many people know a thosuand people they want to hear from), you only have to do loop through a thousand tests to check each msg
[14:32:50] <MrBluze> yes
[14:32:52] <MrBluze> exactly
[14:32:59] <prospectacle> mrbluze, well if only the recipient is in plaintext, you can post the message anywhere.
[14:33:08] <prospectacle> so spies can only tell who is receiving messages
[14:33:12] <prospectacle> not who from
[14:33:14] <MrBluze> then, if someone spams a forum, nobody reads the spam
[14:33:22] <prospectacle> yes
[14:33:32] <prospectacle> you have to know a member, and be vouched for, by them, to join
[14:33:40] <MrBluze> yup
[14:33:44] <prospectacle> good
[14:33:58] <MrBluze> so, have we solved the internets yet?
[14:34:03] <prospectacle> I think so
[14:34:05] <MrBluze> ;)
[14:34:19] <MrBluze> and once it's js, it can be an app also
[14:34:27] <prospectacle> I'd better go to bed. I'll look more into public key cryptography tomorrow and start writing a library.
[14:34:31] <prospectacle> what are your languages mrbluze?
[14:34:38] <MrBluze> sadly not really js
[14:34:43] <MrBluze> c++ / c / php
[14:34:43] <deadpeas> karma - c: 20
[14:34:52] <prospectacle> that's cool. I really think we can start with php
[14:34:52] <MrBluze> and ideas
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[14:35:03] <prospectacle> people can run wamp/lamp and then send the encrpyted msg as needed
[14:35:15] <prospectacle> js can come later
[14:35:19] <prospectacle> once all the kinks are worked out
[14:35:25] <MrBluze> yeah i think with js libraries already available it can be combined with nodejs or something
[14:35:31] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:35:39] <MrBluze> and then clever people come along and get it tidy
[14:35:52] <MrBluze> cheers mate
[14:35:58] <prospectacle> yes, ok catch you later
[14:36:05] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~3a6b517c@o55-559-76-714.mit569.act.optusnet.com.au] has parted #Soylent
[14:37:00] <MrBluze> ah well, who knows
[14:39:00] <MrBluze> we had chicken boob for dinner
[14:39:16] <MrBluze> and i got some stone's ginger beer
[14:39:46] <crutchy> lol
[14:39:56] <crutchy> i'm a breast man
[14:40:01] <MrBluze> yeah same
[14:41:59] <crutchy> fucking stdin
[14:42:13] <crutchy> well, i think
[14:42:58] <MrBluze> stdin gets dodgy beyond 64k
[14:43:03] <MrBluze> but i cant remember why
[14:43:18] <MrBluze> memcpy or summin
[14:43:39] <MrBluze> anyway the crypto thing i reckon is probably in use somewhere already
[14:43:47] <MrBluze> but privately would be my guess
[14:46:39] <crutchy> i can write 1k no probs :-D
[14:47:14] <MrBluze> kilometro biro's can write 1k
[14:47:45] <crutchy> wow
[14:47:55] <crutchy> feel sorry for the buy that tested that
[14:48:03] <crutchy> s/bu/gu/
[14:48:04] <SedBot> <crutchy> feel sorry for the guy that tested that
[14:48:08] <MrBluze> lol yeah
[14:48:10] <MrBluze> sore back
[14:49:49] <crutchy> 1500 bytes works
[14:50:07] <crutchy> lol i'm just using str_repeat("0",1500); to test :-P
[14:50:53] <MrBluze> so at what point does it break?
[14:50:57] <MrBluze> 32767?
[14:51:07] <crutchy> breaks up 1500 bytes into two 1k chunks to fwrite separately, and then spits out "<<EOF>>\n"
[14:51:23] <crutchy> dunno. i'll try 1mb
[14:52:31] <MrBluze> it's c? or c++
[14:52:40] <crutchy> holy shit it does 1mb now :-D
[14:53:39] <MrBluze> :)
[14:53:53] <MrBluze> by breaking it down?
[14:54:25] <crutchy> wow 2mb! yay i think it might work
[14:54:27] <crutchy> yeah
[14:54:39] <crutchy> it's php
[14:54:50] <MrBluze> strings probably limited to 32k
[14:54:56] <MrBluze> or something lame like that
[14:55:01] <crutchy> yeah maybe
[14:55:02] <MrBluze> heaps of stuff has that hidden in it and they never tell u
[14:55:15] <crutchy> though it gets joined together in the bucket array
[14:56:52] <MrBluze> i dunno if i have time for a project like a big crypto thing
[14:56:59] <MrBluze> dont even have time to pay bills
[14:57:04] <crutchy> yeah sounds intense
[14:57:09] <crutchy> lol
[14:57:19] <crutchy> yeah i got a telstra bill i gotta pay one day
[14:57:24] <MrBluze> but its an idea
[14:57:31] <MrBluze> lol yeah i usuually get the late notices
[14:57:39] <MrBluze> they sms those ;)
[14:57:50] <crutchy> you should try your hand at developing an irc civ game :-P
[14:59:01] <MrBluze> tradewars 2014
[14:59:08] <MrBluze> ;)
[14:59:52] <crutchy> hahahaha!!!! fucking wooohoooo!!!!
[14:59:55] <crutchy> it works
[15:00:13] <crutchy> just wrote a 1mb map through bucket messaging :-P
[15:00:33] <MrBluze> congrats
[15:00:39] <crutchy> :-D
[15:00:50] <crutchy> i think breaking up the stream was the key
[15:01:05] <MrBluze> usually is
[15:01:09] <MrBluze> same as with crypto
[15:01:13] <crutchy> exec is getting quite useful now i think
[15:01:23] <MrBluze> packet size for 2048 or something like that
[15:01:30] <crutchy> ah
[15:02:45] <MrBluze> then number the packets
[15:02:50] <MrBluze> so u can send them out of order
[15:03:04] <MrBluze> :D
[15:07:50] <crutchy> lol
[15:08:23] <crutchy> at least i don't have to go that far with stdin
[15:08:34] <MrBluze> .. or u can resume a failed send
[15:08:41] <MrBluze> u could do via ssh
[15:09:42] <crutchy> i i eventually make exec into a server (using sockets in stead of stdin/stdout) will definitely need something like that
[15:09:57] <crutchy> with checksums
[15:10:51] <MrBluze> yep all that
[15:11:09] <MrBluze> keeping track of packets is not that hard
[15:11:19] <MrBluze> checksums u just use stuff that is already available
[15:12:28] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[15:12:41] <MrBluze> hi janrinok
[15:12:44] <MrBluze> i laughed at your email
[15:12:50] <crutchy> not sure if i'll go that road personally though
[15:13:03] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[15:13:07] <MrBluze> well if it was me, crutchy, i'd be too lazy
[15:13:16] <crutchy> i dunno whether i like the idea of trusting a remote process
[15:13:31] <crutchy> though i guess its only text
[15:13:35] <crutchy> hmm yeah
[15:14:03] <crutchy> kinda like making a web server :-P
[15:14:11] <crutchy> nothing like reinventing wheels :-D
[15:14:24] <MrBluze> lol
[15:14:29] <MrBluze> u learn from doing even that
[15:15:08] <crutchy> g'day janrinok, bytram
[15:15:57] <MrBluze> hi Bytram
[15:17:41] <MrBluze> time for bed methinks
[15:17:56] <crutchy> yeah getting that way
[15:18:03] <MrBluze> have a good one crutchy
[15:18:12] <crutchy> you too mrbluze
[15:18:16] <MrBluze> a few more of these i think and i'll be done
[15:19:04] <crutchy> these?
[15:19:22] <MrBluze> yeah late nights on sn
[15:19:28] <crutchy> ah
[15:19:33] <crutchy> hope that's not all
[15:19:36] <MrBluze> waiting for the votes to finish and then i see
[15:20:22] <MrBluze> well this irc has been awesome
[15:20:28] <MrBluze> and is
[15:20:42] <crutchy> yeah will continue to be :-)
[15:20:54] <crutchy> with you included
[15:20:56] Blackmoore|dead is now known as Blackmoore
[15:21:00] <crutchy> lol
[15:21:14] <crutchy> you alive Blackmoore?
[15:21:14] <MrBluze> lol
[15:21:27] <Blackmoore> undead. it's thursday
[15:21:47] <crutchy> almost friday here
[15:21:57] <Blackmoore> gnight MrBluze
[15:22:03] <crutchy> you in straya too blackmoore?
[15:22:07] <crutchy> night mrbluze
[15:22:15] <crutchy> i keep forgetting where everyone is
[15:22:19] <MrBluze> gnite
[15:22:23] <Blackmoore> I'm in buffalo.
[15:22:32] <crutchy> ahh that's right
[15:22:35] <Blackmoore> just getting into the office.
[15:22:36] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|zzz
[15:22:39] <crutchy> did you end up catching up with nc?
[15:22:49] <Blackmoore> yes, saw him sunday
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[15:23:18] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
[15:23:20] <crutchy> does he look like a torvalds or a stallman?
[15:23:45] <Blackmoore> i got to see a bunch to the source for slash, the backend interface.. the mostrosity of assembly he's working on
[15:23:58] <crutchy> asm!?
[15:24:14] <Blackmoore> oh no, he looks nothing like that
[15:24:54] <Blackmoore> yeah - he's writing code to interface the 64 bit file system with 32 bit devices..
[15:25:09] <Blackmoore> Gnarly looking.
[15:25:25] <crutchy> aren't there already thunking utils for that? (not that i would know)
[15:25:39] <Blackmoore> I think it depends on the file system.
[15:25:57] <crutchy> sounds cool anyway
[15:26:04] <crutchy> though i reckon c would be enough
[15:26:18] <Blackmoore> i cant imagine that all of the current gen is covered in anycase
[15:26:23] <crutchy> asm is dicing with portability problems
[15:26:44] <Blackmoore> yeah - asm is very processor specific.
[15:27:19] <Blackmoore> no getting round that - without moving to c or something else
[15:27:37] <crutchy> though it does have seriously hardcore geek cred... even if it sucks :-P
[15:28:02] <crutchy> you could write totally crap asm and it would still be cool :-D
[15:28:02] <Blackmoore> imbedded devices create this kinda issue.
[15:28:42] <Blackmoore> I havent written anything in ASM since 89. but i know the prolem (oy)
[15:29:34] <Blackmoore> and i was looking as micro-boards again recently. and there it was again.
[15:29:45] <ar> bits of slash are written in asm, of all things?
[15:30:02] <ar> why would they? :<
[15:30:04] <crutchy> Blackmoore: you into microcontrollers?
[15:30:40] <crutchy> ar: it's slash :-P
[15:30:46] <crutchy> why anything
[15:31:47] <crutchy> there's possibly some interia behind the movement to migrate slash to php
[15:31:58] <ar> why php? :<
[15:31:58] <crutchy> s/interia/inertia/
[15:31:59] <SedBot> <crutchy> there's possibly some inertia behind the movement to migrate slash to php
[15:32:12] <crutchy> cos more people can code it
[15:32:23] <ar> not really, no
[15:32:52] <crutchy> that might make an interesting poll question actually
[15:32:56] <ar> php is so full of stupid corner cases, that it's foolish to think one can comprehend it
[15:33:02] <crutchy> what's your favourite programming language
[15:33:13] <crutchy> php is ok
[15:33:17] <ar> i'd argue that php is actually harder than c++ because of it
[15:33:17] <crutchy> its just a lnaguage
[15:34:08] <crutchy> but c++ is harder to make web apps with
[15:34:17] <crutchy> even if it is an easier language
[15:34:20] <ar> webtoolkit?
[15:34:39] <ar> even Qt can be used to make server-side web apps
[15:34:42] <crutchy> not sure. never used it (like prolly many others)
[15:34:57] <crutchy> i'm sure you *can* make a web app with asm
[15:35:14] <ar> a friend of mine has written a small web server in asm
[15:36:09] <crutchy> but for a geek community with members wanting to be involved in development, asm is definitely not good
[15:36:34] <ar> still, ruby + sinatra or python + flask is actually easier to write and deploy proper webapps with
[15:37:33] <crutchy> or php + err... just php
[15:37:45] <crutchy> and maybe mysql
[15:37:56] <ar> flask and sinatra are just libraries
[15:38:50] <ar> unless you want to write your webapp php style - single-page → single file and a horrible mess of rewrites defined in apache
[15:39:12] <crutchy> i'm sure they are ok, but i'm reasonably sure more members would be likely to contribute to a php project than those
[15:39:27] <ar> poll
[15:39:37] <crutchy> definitely
[15:40:11] <crutchy> i don't know about 'php style', but maybe i'm weird :-P
[15:40:27] <crutchy> i could write an entire cms in a single file
[15:40:31] <crutchy> (not sure i would)
[15:40:57] <crutchy> ^especially cos i prefer gedit
[15:41:12] <Brylarke> Eww, gedit
[15:41:16] <crutchy> lol
[15:41:28] <ar> "php style webapp" - just a bunch of files + a mess of rewrites in webserver defining routes
[15:41:30] <crutchy> aw c'mon its not *that* bad
[15:41:40] <Brylarke> Nah, its not really
[15:41:46] <Brylarke> I've just moved on
[15:41:54] <crutchy> i like simple
[15:42:12] <crutchy> ar: i thought that was pretty much any web app?
[15:42:12] <ar> you like simple, yet you argue that you'd write webapp in php
[15:42:16] <Brylarke> I'd rather use nano though at that point
[15:42:24] <ar> crutchy: no, not really
[15:42:25] <crutchy> php is very simple
[15:42:45] <ar> crutchy: in proper webapps you handle routes in your webapp
[15:42:53] <crutchy> routes?
[15:43:02] <crutchy> you mean dispatching?
[15:43:04] <Blackmoore> crutchy: I was looking to replace the controler on my boiler with a PI and make it a smart geatign system
[15:43:32] <Blackmoore> heating
[15:43:32] <ar> crutchy: yes
[15:43:45] <crutchy> dispatching is easy in php
[15:43:59] <crutchy> switch statement is your friend :-P
[15:44:16] <ar> crutchy: also, php actually promotes mixing views with html templates with sql with logic code
[15:44:17] <Blackmoore> swithch is your friend in ANY language.
[15:44:19] * Brylarke vomits
[15:44:41] <ar> crutchy: and that's A Bad Thingâ„¢
[15:44:58] <crutchy> lol Brylarke at least i didn't say if...elseif...elseif...elsif...else
[15:45:07] <crutchy> ar?
[15:45:29] <Blackmoore> it's the never ending IF statement ! run away!
[15:46:08] <crutchy> though have have used if...elseif...elseif.. etc for dispatching before
[15:46:11] * crutchy hides
[15:46:25] <crutchy> its better for complex conditions
[15:46:56] <crutchy> well, maybe not "better"
[15:47:01] <crutchy> but works :-D
[15:47:04] <Brylarke> Lazier
[15:47:17] <crutchy> what other ways?
[15:47:19] <ar> crutchy: ok. proper route handling: http://www.sinatrarb.com templating: http://www.sinatrarb.com
[15:47:20] <Brylarke> Design patterns be damned
[15:48:14] <Brylarke> (I am in no way criticizing the art of laziness when applied correctly)
[15:48:20] <crutchy> that language looks like chinese to me
[15:48:29] <crutchy> and the examples are oversimplified
[15:48:43] <crutchy> real web apps aren't usually that simple
[15:49:23] <ar> no, that's just a "getting started" guide
[15:49:42] <Brylarke> It's ruby
[15:49:44] <crutchy> similar to switch statement then :-P
[15:49:46] <Brylarke> Everything is simple
[15:49:57] <crutchy> switch is the dispatch getting started guide for php
[15:50:27] <ar> no
[15:51:02] <ar> doing things like that is "oh, let us guide you towards unmaintainable mess of a webapp" guide
[15:52:41] <Blackmoore> mmph. I can say that about 80% of documentation.
[15:52:58] <ar> crutchy: here's a real-life example: https://github.com
[15:53:14] <ar> crutchy: https://github.com
[15:53:41] <Landon> Blackmoore: no switch in python!
[15:55:36] <crutchy> ar: kinda looks like a bunch of if statements
[15:55:39] <Brylarke> Indeed
[15:55:40] <crutchy> ?
[15:55:44] <Brylarke> It's too cool for switch
[15:56:40] <ar> crutchy: not really, no
[15:56:52] <Teckla> http://www.atheistmemebase.com
[15:56:58] <crutchy> post '/tasks/?' do => if (isset($_POST["tasks"])==True)
[15:57:12] <crutchy> no>
[15:57:23] <crutchy> s/>/?/
[15:57:24] <SedBot> <crutchy> no?
[15:58:26] <ar> crutchy: well, yes. but what is more readable and cleaner? "post '/tasks/?' do"
[15:58:38] <crutchy> meh. it's all the same to me
[15:58:47] <crutchy> if statement is an if statement
[15:59:26] <ar> not if your webapp is big and you actually have to maintain it
[15:59:30] <crutchy> still works the same... only difference is syntactical
[16:00:14] <ar> syntactical uglyness is what lead to "goto fail;" in apple's crypto lib
[16:00:16] <crutchy> or is that syntaxical :-P
[16:00:18] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Programming Sucks - A Lighthearted View - http://sylnt.us - relax-its-a-holiday
[16:00:34] <crutchy> you can get ugliness in any language
[16:00:49] <ar> but in php you get uglyness by default
[16:00:56] <ar> and it's hard to get rid of it
[16:01:19] <Brylarke> I'm assuming that all the routes in that example don't have to be in one file
[16:01:28] <crutchy> i guess a lot of programmers disagree (since php drives a fair chunk of the web)
[16:02:09] <ar> crutchy: php drives a big chunk of the web not because it's good, but because people calling themselves "php programmers" are cheap
[16:02:12] nick is now known as n1
[16:02:21] <Brylarke> Which is s big downside of the simple switch statement
[16:02:48] <crutchy> price is usually a function of availability
[16:02:56] <crutchy> hence my original argument :-P
[16:04:01] <ar> also, i think it makes a good statement, that at amazon you can write things in whatever language you want, except php
[16:04:34] <Blackmoore> Landon: well, if i have to start coding in Python, I know what i will add first.
[16:05:00] <crutchy> Brylarke: it was in a class... can you split a class in ruby? (i don't know ruby)
[16:05:01] <Teckla> Ew, dynamic typing ;)
[16:05:12] <ar> crutchy: you can
[16:05:15] <Blackmoore> *wrote software in BASIC. wont ever go back*
[16:05:28] <ar> crutchy: you can even monkey patch basic classes
[16:05:41] * Brylarke doesn't know ruby either
[16:05:57] <crutchy> mkay lol not sure what "monkey patch" means
[16:06:15] * crutchy isn't a professional programmer
[16:06:40] <Brylarke> Add/change stuff on it at runtime
[16:06:47] <Landon> Blackmoore: I usually find dictionaries a good enough replacement
[16:06:49] <ar> crutchy: add/replace methods in existing classess without creating new ones, so that the changed/added methods are usable in all the already existing objects
[16:06:59] <ar> crutchy: useful sometimes
[16:07:00] <Landon> failing that, I do have a couple of long if elif statements :)
[16:07:10] <crutchy> cool
[16:07:22] <crutchy> sounds a bit dangerous, but i like dangerous :-P
[16:07:54] <crutchy> i'm not a big fan of oop web apps
[16:08:13] <crutchy> i like oop in delphi though
[16:08:47] <ar> delphi is one of the reasons why Altium is actually cosidered worse than Kicad for PCB design by some
[16:09:15] <crutchy> i haven't used either of those
[16:09:35] <crutchy> is Altium compiled with delphi?
[16:09:38] <ar> (it was, thanks to delphi, limited to 32bit address space)
[16:10:00] <crutchy> lol
[16:10:27] <crutchy> i'm sure delphi can do 64 bit
[16:10:35] <crutchy> well whatever its called nowadays
[16:10:46] <crutchy> embaracrdo fuckedup
[16:10:54] <crutchy> .net
[16:10:56] <crutchy> :-P
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[16:11:52] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mechanicjay] by juggler
[16:12:03] <crutchy> g'day mechanicjay
[16:12:29] <mechanicjay> 'morning
[16:12:52] <crutchy> tis morning here too... 12:12am :-P
[16:13:33] <crutchy> might call it a night
[16:13:37] <mechanicjay> ...so, wait, are you 14 hours ahead or 10 hours behind?
[16:13:52] <crutchy> gmt+10
[16:14:07] <crutchy> it just ticked over to friday\
[16:14:12] <ar> huh
[16:14:24] <ar> oh, australia
[16:14:32] <mechanicjay> got it. gmt-4 here, friday is unfortunately an entire work day away for me :(
[16:14:43] <crutchy> night everyone. thanks for the chat ar. debating is fun :-)
[16:14:54] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[16:15:00] <ar> gmt+2 here
[16:30:20] <Blackmoore> g'night
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[16:35:00] <Woods> A home inspection company just added me to their circles on G+...
[16:38:48] <Blackmoore> ah networking. devolvign quite quickly to direct to custome advertizing.
[16:39:47] <Popeidol> if I start a company, I am going to call it 'custome advertizinge'
[16:40:47] <n1> you mean companies are using google+ to engage with potential clients so they can tailor their services to give the best possible experience?
[16:45:14] <Brylarke> Well no
[16:45:26] <Brylarke> The best possible experience would be being left alone
[16:46:07] <Popeidol> the best possible experience would be for them to only advertise a service you immediately need right now
[16:46:20] <n1> heh
[16:46:34] <Popeidol> and even then, to be the best they'd have to just provide it and invoice you
[16:46:38] <Popeidol> no real need to advertise
[16:46:44] <n1> Popeidol, and include an independent study comparing them to the other alternatives in the market
[16:48:33] <Blackmoore> Popeidol: you're welcome
[16:48:42] <Popeidol> the first guy to truly master supply and demand is going to make billions
[16:49:07] <Popeidol> if somebody is able to deliver me a pizza at the exact second I want one, I will pay quite a premium
[16:49:15] <Blackmoore> Popeidol: i though Stalin tried that
[16:49:37] <n1> delivering a pizza is one thing, a pizza you want is another.
[16:49:46] <n1> a cooked pizza you want, another yet again.
[16:50:35] <Popeidol> Blackmoore: stalin made pizza?
[16:50:36] <Blackmoore> Who the hell thought i wanted Pizza with cheddar cheese and anchovies?
[16:50:40] <Popeidol> you learn something new every day
[16:50:55] <n1> the chinese will tell you, they invented pizza.
[16:51:27] <n1> or more accurately, the italians couldn't make chinese dumplings right, which is how they ended up with pizza, as i was told in beijing.
[16:51:30] <Blackmoore> the idea of communism is that the central control assignes who will get what, who will make what, and who will harvest/mine what
[16:51:50] <Blackmoore> never mind the logistical details
[16:53:08] <Blackmoore> and as for Pizza - the Romans had pizza (in the itailian style) I would expect to hear that kind of nonsense from the chineese..
[16:53:26] <Blackmoore> they think they invented everything.
[16:53:29] <n1> yeah, it was just amusing to hear
[16:53:51] <n1> i can't remember the other things they 'invented' during that tour, there was quite a few things
[16:53:58] <Blackmoore> the Ethiopians had a version of it too
[16:54:29] <Blackmoore> "cooked dough with stuff on it" is kinda easy once you have dough
[16:54:41] <n1> lol yeah
[16:55:08] <Blackmoore> I will acreddit the chineese with massive beuracracy. thank you Confucious
[16:55:40] <n1> chinese food is great as it is, no need to claim pizza
[16:55:55] <Blackmoore> without that that whole continent would basically be like the Mongols
[16:56:16] <Blackmoore> would have overrun everything.. but Japan.
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[16:57:22] <Popeidol> the mongols kind of ate themselves in the end
[16:57:32] <Popeidol> infighting between descendants
[16:58:31] <Popeidol> absorbing chinese bureaucracy helped them survive as a single entity until that point
[16:59:04] <Blackmoore> yeah. just imagine a "china" where you didnt have dynasties, just a lot of seperate hordes... bureaucracy stops all that
[16:59:34] <Blackmoore> just like it keeps most of us in line.
[17:00:10] <Blackmoore> *not really a fan of Anarchy*
[17:01:04] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Supreme Court Strikes a Blow Against Coal Power - http://sylnt.us - its-your-mess-you-clean-it-up
[17:34:21] <Woods> Wut... I just had 4 other "businesses" add me to their circles on G+.
[17:36:57] <AndyTheAbsurd> One of the nice things about G+ is that just because they added you doesn't mean that you have to add them.
[17:40:16] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[17:41:46] <Woods> I know right? It just makes me nervous that five coporations (In a different state) all are simultaneously interested in me.
[17:47:37] <Blackmoore> *makes note to change address to "the high seas"*
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[18:21:07] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - SanDisk Announces 4TB 2.5" SSD - http://sylnt.us - at-a-price
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[19:20:50] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Dreamworks Wants to Price Movies by Screen Size - http://sylnt.us - its-the-size-that-counts
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[19:49:21] <TK> Is it time to halve everyone's karma yet?
[19:53:12] <Blackmoore> now now - let's try to figure out how to get more people talking..
[19:53:27] <arti> more social issues
[19:53:31] <arti> perhaps women in IT
[19:53:49] <Blackmoore> mm.. yeah that's usually pretty good.
[19:54:18] <arti> greetings btw
[19:54:25] * arti offers carmel coffee candies
[19:54:41] <arti> came for the flavor, stayed for the caffeine
[19:55:36] <TK> women in video games
[19:55:44] <TK> that will get the masses in a huff
[19:55:50] <NCommander> the apt hunt continues ...
[19:56:00] <arti> you hunt a lot of things NCommander
[19:56:16] <Blackmoore> what are you hunting for?
[19:56:17] <arti> from apartments to packages, you're on a global safari
[19:56:22] <NCommander> I forgot how hard this is in rural communities
[19:56:27] <Blackmoore> OH Apartment
[19:56:50] <Blackmoore> brain. thingy.. (was thinking apt-get)
[19:56:53] <arti> NCommander: i'd recommend carrying some dirt blocks with you, so when it gets dark, just make a shelter
[19:57:23] <arti> and for bait, i recommend sacks full of money
[19:57:28] <Blackmoore> ^^^ why minecraft is easyer then life
[19:57:30] <NCommander> if life was like Minecraft it would be awesome
[19:57:44] * NCommander punches some trees
[19:57:54] <Blackmoore> and I'd already be dead due to lava
[19:57:54] * arti hears the soft pop of the wood block
[19:58:04] <arti> well you'd just start at the origin
[19:58:10] <NCommander> pity I can
[19:58:12] <arti> just play in creative mode
[19:58:18] <arti> instead of survival :P
[19:58:23] <NCommander> not run mc on my laptop
[19:58:31] <arti> the middle east would be full of creepers
[19:58:44] <arti> fssssss BOOM
[19:59:03] <arti> which is why you build moats. moats everywhere
[19:59:30] <NCommander> real men play on hardcore
[19:59:31] <Blackmoore> pillar up at night.
[19:59:41] <arti> hahaha
[20:00:04] <arti> that's a good strategy. i'd like a hover house personally
[20:00:15] <arti> "whelp, time to retreat to the safety of 30m up"
[20:00:31] * arti has a spell for that in skyrim
[20:00:37] <Blackmoore> try Acremiedies Airships mod..
[20:01:09] <Blackmoore> a little buggy, but i like it
[20:02:20] <Blackmoore> tell you what - after we get the new mod setup in place (june? july) I'll open it up to people in here
[20:02:52] <arti> cool :D
[20:03:08] <arti> i can't think of any other fellows i'd enjoy playing with more
[20:03:13] <Bytram> NCommander: good luck with your apt search! Is it a requirement that you live *in* NH?
[20:03:26] <arti> perhaps he can live on it, or above it
[20:03:38] <Bytram> LOL!
[20:03:39] <Blackmoore> I want to setup the new one under 1.7 but the mods are taking a long time to come out. a lot of codebase was changed.
[20:03:40] <arti> a bunker sounds cool
[20:04:14] <arti> Blackmoore: if you have teh c++ powers, there's a C++ mc server which supports api 1.2-1.7
[20:04:42] <Blackmoore> NCommander: are you looking for urban or suburban?
[20:04:59] <Bytram> I was thinking that he's in competition with all the folks who ork in MA but want to live in NH. If physical domecile is not a requirement, he could head a little further north to Maine; there's some nice places up there, too.
[20:05:02] <Blackmoore> arti: my c++ is prety rudimentary.
[20:05:10] <arti> mine as well
[20:05:15] <Bytram> s/ork/work/
[20:05:17] <SedBot> <Bytram> I was thinking that he's in competition with all the folks who work in MA but want to live in NH. If physical domecile is not a requirement, he could head a little further north to Maine; there's some nice places up there, too.
[20:05:45] * arti is fond of 2 season climates
[20:05:54] <arti> if i want the other i can go to the mountains
[20:06:11] * arti has had his fill of studded tires and black ice
[20:06:18] <Bytram> arti: yep, it's been said that maine has two seasons: winter, and one month of pretty tough sledding.
[20:06:40] <arti> that said, there are plenty of beautiful places in the world :D
[20:06:50] * arti enjoys going barefoot
[20:06:51] <Blackmoore> and one had roads closed due to moose migrations
[20:06:54] <Bytram> though, that probably applies to the northernmost parts of the state; down in the southern part, it's been known to hit 100 degrees (F)
[20:07:11] <arti> sounds miserable there
[20:07:22] <arti> i couldn't imagine NYC @ 100
[20:07:39] <arti> wait i can, it'll be like those youtube videos of fights
[20:07:48] <Bytram> that's an extreme that doesn't happen every summer.
[20:08:04] <arti> people like extreme things, take base jumping!
[20:08:22] <arti> or extreme walking. it's like regular walking, but with tricks
[20:08:25] <Bytram> otoh, last winter saw temps of -20 (f) for a couple nights.
[20:08:41] <Bytram> that's for Portland, ME; the largest city in the state.
[20:08:59] <arti> orly /themoreyouknow
[20:09:50] <Bytram> it's affectionately known as Boston, North. Have their own Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey teams. Historical city right on the harbor.
[20:10:13] <arti> pahk the kah
[20:10:50] <Bytram> arti: not round here; that's more cambridge MA like.
[20:11:04] * arti enjoys the "masshole" name
[20:11:14] <Bytram> otoh, head down east a bit, and there's certainly an interesting dialect going on there.
[20:11:25] <arti> i'm used to mangled english
[20:11:31] <Bytram> do a search on "Bert & I" for some classic examples. =)
[20:11:59] <Bytram> wish I could chat, but gotta get ready to head out the door soon.
[20:12:07] Bytram is now known as Bytram|afk
[20:12:29] <arti> alright sir, enjoy
[20:12:34] * arti returns to refactoring
[20:12:41] * arti does code punching
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[20:21:10] <Blackmoore> *sound of wood pop* :p
[20:23:52] <NCommander> bytram no but it solves legal hassles with incorporation
[20:25:11] <NCommander> I plan on having a registered agent no matter what but if I am legally in NH I can easily be on hand to go to offices
[20:28:36] <Bytram|afk> NCommander: kinda what I thought, but wanted to offer another possibility, just in case. Portland *is* on amtrak, btw. (bus lines go there, too.)
[20:29:37] <NCommander> yeah I considered that option but I think it's just easier this way
[20:29:59] <NCommander> I'm going to have to start looking for volunteers for the NFP board
[20:30:15] <Bytram|afk> yeah, it would be easier. best of luck in your search!
[20:30:43] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - The Intergalactic Medium Unveiled - http://sylnt.us - never-take-a-selfie-with-this
[20:30:51] <NCommander> brb
[20:33:32] <NCommander> Bytram|afk, switched to chromebook
[20:33:34] <NCommander> yay keyboard
[20:34:51] <Bytram|afk> hey gang! heading out for the day. have fun! cya later!
[20:34:57] Bytram|afk is now known as Bytram|away
[20:35:00] <Blackmoore> cya
[20:38:06] * NCommander pokes mrcool|afk
[20:38:34] <arti> just build an obsidian enclosure around his avatar
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[20:39:15] <NCommander> arti, :-P
[20:39:52] <arti> and people say i don't think of others
[20:43:23] <Blackmoore> well I checked with my friend out in NH, and he doesnt have a lead (they live in the boondocks)
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[20:43:24] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
[20:53:12] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[20:53:18] <AndyTheAbsurd> What kind of leads are we looking for in NH?
[20:53:40] * AndyTheAbsurd doesn't think he knows anyone *currently* in NH but does know a few people in MA.
[20:55:34] <Blackmoore> housing.
[20:56:24] <Blackmoore> arti: would the obsidian enclosure be enopugh to deflect lawsuits?
[20:59:44] n1 is now known as n|away
[20:59:49] n|away is now known as n1|away
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[21:16:14] <NCommander> Blackmoore, arti: I'd expect lawyers to have diamond picks :-/
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[21:39:19] <Blackmoore> still gives you time to dig down and get away
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[21:40:19] <michealpwalls> AMAGAD I did it!
[21:40:33] <michealpwalls> Took me *most* of today but I did it! I re-wrote the beastly script that shall-not-be-named.
[21:40:51] <michealpwalls> From 1,500 lines of insanity to a nice, manageable ~400 lines.
[21:40:57] <michealpwalls> AND IT STILL WORKS! (flex)
[21:41:15] * AndyTheAbsurd high-fives michealpwalls
[21:41:33] * michealpwalls High-five!
[21:41:36] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Chrome Experiments with URL-less Web - http://sylnt.us - now-all-those-URLs-I-memorized-are-worthless
[21:43:41] <Subsentient> NCommander: You really need to fix the login problem. I can't log in, it just takes me back to where I was as an AC!
[21:43:47] <Subsentient> It's never been fixed, it's still doing that!
[21:44:00] <Subsentient> It does it in both Firefox and Midori
[21:44:05] * Subsentient <3 midori
[21:45:24] <Subsentient> $tell NCommander You really need to fix the login problem. I can't log in, it just takes me back to where I was as an AC!
[21:45:24] <aqu4> I'll tell them in a PM next time I see 'em.
[21:45:40] <Subsentient> $tell NCommander It's never been fixed, it's still doing that! Does it in Firefox and Midori
[21:45:40] <aqu4> I'll tell them in a PM next time I see 'em.
[21:46:54] <chromas> I haven't been having that problem, though I do get logged out occasionally
[21:47:01] <chromas> Firefox hee
[21:47:13] <chromas> s/e/er/
[21:47:52] <Subsentient> chromas: I am also using a proxy which among other things blocks Google, so, that might be part of it.
[21:47:56] <chromas> s/(.)/ SetBot Missing /
[21:48:02] <Subsentient> Down with the google shit!
[21:48:17] <Subsentient> It's horrifying how many sites tap into Google.
[21:48:31] <Teckla> What does it mean to "tap into Google"?
[21:48:39] <Subsentient> There's nothing worse than those auto-share buttons popping up just to be turned into an unmovable access denied from squid.
[21:49:08] <Subsentient> But, it's worth it to say fk u to google.
[21:49:49] <NCommander> Subsentient, what login problem?
[21:50:02] <NCommander> Subsentient, do you have cookies disabled?
[21:50:06] <Subsentient> NCommander: No.
[21:50:18] <Subsentient> I use adblock, but not noscript.
[21:50:27] <NCommander> Subsentient, it works fine here with FIrefox/ARM32
[21:50:32] <chromas> Do you...use HOSTS?
[21:50:49] <Subsentient> my /etc/hosts file is not customized if that's what you mean.
[21:51:00] <chromas> APK would like you to have this here 2TB hosts file
[21:51:20] <Subsentient> lolll
[21:51:26] <paulej72> NCommander: Subsentient is using a proxy
[21:51:36] <Subsentient> It blocks google and facebook and stuff.
[21:51:41] <Subsentient> Basically anything I hate.
[21:51:56] -!- NCommander [NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has parted #Soylent
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[21:52:00] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v NCommander] by juggler
[21:52:07] <paulej72> I guess you hate Soylentnews Subsentient :)
[21:52:31] <NCommander> Subsentient, ugh. Its likely causing issues with formkeys. We've had some known issues with proxies, but that entire chunk of code needs a $!@# rewrite
[21:53:14] <paulej72> Subsentient: is it a private proxy or a big multiuser proxy?
[21:53:32] <chromas> A big multiuser proxy which tracks everything you do...
[21:53:44] <Teckla> Subsentient: "unmovable access denied from squid" -- what's that?
[21:53:51] <Teckla> Inquiring minds want to know!
[21:53:58] <paulej72> Google should have a proxy service :)
[21:54:21] <Subsentient> Teckla: When you get a tiny window that's just a squid access denied that pops up as a blocked share button thing and it blocks out your text and you can't get rid ofit
[21:54:22] <NCommander> Subsentient, it *sounds* like they're filtering out cookies and such
[21:54:56] <Subsentient> NCommander: It's my proxy. I run it upstairs on an old Mendocino celeron. I am not blocking cookies. Soylent is the only site that has troubles like that.
[21:55:51] <Teckla> Subsentient: Oh, I right click -> inspect -> delete the offending dom node :)
[21:56:47] <Subsentient> Teckla: Ah, yeah, thanks. I knew there was a way but I didn't know where.
[21:57:39] <NCommander> Subsentient, extremely odd
[21:58:28] <Subsentient> Here: http://universe2.us:74
[21:58:42] <Subsentient> 74 is the Proxy server's http port.
[21:59:05] <Blackmoore> high-fives michealpwalls .. than looks around at the chaos
[22:00:11] <NCommander> Subsentient, I'll try it in a bit
[22:00:18] <NCommander> Subsentient, HTTP or socks?
[22:00:30] <Subsentient> http
[22:01:22] <Subsentient> NCommander: no,no that link is just a status page :^)
[22:01:54] <Subsentient> the port is secret but since I said that some asshole will probably scan the server.
[22:05:12] <Subsentient> I can pm you the port for testing but don
[22:05:16] <Subsentient> don't give it out
[22:08:55] <chromas> It found it
[22:08:57] <chromas> It's 3
[22:09:31] <chromas> $burrito self
[22:09:32] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at self
[22:09:37] <chromas> $burrito chromas
[22:09:38] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at chromas
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[22:47:53] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[23:01:37] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Forget the Higgs, Neutrinos May be the Key - http://sylnt.us - now-you-don't-see-them-and-now-you-don't
[23:07:57] MrBluze|zzz is now known as MrBluze
[23:08:32] * arti tosses a paper airplane so that it buzzes MrBluze
[23:08:45] <MrBluze> oh.. gmorning
[23:08:50] <arti> g'day
[23:08:59] <arti> afternoon :D
[23:10:04] <MrBluze> that too
[23:10:10] <MrBluze> hows thingamabobs
[23:10:41] * arti is practicing DRY
[23:11:56] <MrBluze> dry?
[23:12:13] <arti> don't repeat yourself
[23:12:22] <arti> what you did there, i saw it.
[23:12:41] * arti is refactoring some code
[23:12:57] <arti> it's good enough for delivery but uh, working != clean
[23:15:45] * NCommander hits MrBluze with a drive by pie
[23:16:39] <arti> that's how clowns settle things
[23:16:44] <arti> sounds like a larson comic idea
[23:16:54] <arti> deep in the city of Clownton...
[23:17:19] <NCommander> arti, I made it raspberry because only ONE MAN WOULD DARE USE RASPBERRY
[23:17:28] <arti> RASPBERRY PI
[23:17:41] <arti> i hate it when i get my schwarz tangled
[23:17:47] * NCommander hits arti with 3.14 Raspberry Pi(e)s
[23:17:53] <Bytram|away> NCommander: prince? Raspberry beret?
[23:17:58] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[23:19:04] * NCommander hits Bytram with an additional 2.14 pies to make make it a full pi
[23:19:52] * arti memory hacks the pie launcher animation timer and sets it at 0
[23:20:00] <arti> muhahahaha
[23:20:09] <Bytram> LOL!
[23:20:15] * NCommander loads /kick
[23:20:26] * arti memory hacks his name to a non printable character
[23:20:27] <arti> good luck!
[23:20:28] <NCommander> Don't bring a pie launcher to an IRC battle.
[23:20:37] <chromas> /kick.py ?
[23:20:37] * Bytram takes it in the pi-tuitary gland
[23:20:45] * NCommander warms up iptables
[23:20:52] <NCommander> :-)
[23:20:57] <Bytram> Silly rabbit, kicks are for trids!
[23:21:00] * arti readies his vpns
[23:21:09] <chromas> and tricks are for chicks
[23:21:16] * NCommander modifies arti's account to redirect him to beta.slashdot.org
[23:21:33] <arti> my. that escalated quickly
[23:21:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - OpenBSD 5.5 Released - http://sylnt.us - and-there-was-much-rejoicing
[23:21:54] <NCommander> arti, hence the fallacy of MAD :-)
[23:22:31] <arti> i'm tempted to pick up DayZ to fiddle around with some memory hacks
[23:24:34] <arti> what about MADD?
[23:24:41] <NCommander> Linode bill paid
[23:24:49] <arti> [ Achievement Unlocked ]
[23:24:52] <NCommander> bank_account--
[23:24:52] <deadpeas> karma - bank_account: -1
[23:24:54] <NCommander> :-(
[23:25:04] <arti> supporting_businesses++
[23:25:04] <deadpeas> karma - supporting_businesses: 1
[23:25:11] <arti> that's like 2 fascist merit badges bro
[23:25:29] <NCommander> defending_the_constitution++
[23:25:29] <deadpeas> karma - defending_the_constitution: 1
[23:25:41] <arti> lol all_men_are_equal++
[23:26:01] <NCommander> all_men_are_created_equal_you_can_never_erase_those_words++
[23:26:01] <deadpeas> karma - all_men_are_created_equal_you_can_never_erase_those_words: 1
[23:26:10] <chromas> whatis constitution Thu May 1 13:52:25 PDT 2014
[23:26:11] <chromas> constitution: nothing appropriate.
[23:26:13] <arti> they'll just change the definition
[23:26:19] <arti> chromas: it's like a state of mind
[23:26:30] <chromas> copied date/time
[23:26:38] <arti> a noun for what politicians wipe with
[23:33:21] <NCommander> I need a hug :-/
[23:33:38] <arti> i think they sell those pillows
[23:33:52] <NCommander> Defiance is almost out of power
[23:33:53] <NCommander> ;.;
[23:34:18] <arti> http://www.amazon.com
[23:36:02] <Blackmoore> bacon++
[23:36:02] <deadpeas> karma - bacon: 225
[23:38:46] <Landon> anyone have some C++ books to recommend?
[23:39:09] <Landon> I've decided to finally get over myself and learn the new hotness instead of scraping by on college lecture material
[23:39:21] <arti> landon, learning from scratch?
[23:39:34] <Landon> arti: I'd love to :) that might require a lobotomy
[23:39:34] <arti> are you looking for more of a reference?
[23:39:44] <Landon> yeah, learning && unbreaking bad habits
[23:40:03] <arti> C++ primer is an awesome reference
[23:40:03] <deadpeas> karma - c: 21
[23:40:14] <arti> just a sec, there's a great thread on this topic
[23:40:20] <Landon> awesome
[23:40:31] <arti> http://stackoverflow.com
[23:40:40] <Landon> I was thinking C++ Primer, Tour of C++, and C++ Programming Language if I decide to get a referencey book
[23:40:56] * arti has a copy of C++ primer within arms reach
[23:41:20] <Landon> holy crap, that's awesome
[23:41:33] <Landon> I did find a few stackoverflow results, but they were all closed because of some inane rule
[23:41:46] <arti> yeah, the moderators are pretty ruthless
[23:41:58] <arti> "why add to it when we can take away!"
[23:42:12] <Landon> absolutely
[23:42:21] * arti can only imagine the noise on a site with that kinda volume
[23:42:29] <Landon> my big gripe is how they handle duplicates
[23:42:44] <Landon> I wish they were merged in some way more significant than closing the original Q and linking to the older Q
[23:42:48] <Landon> s/original/new/
[23:42:49] -!- michealpwalls [michealpwalls!~michealpw@cxnwzhcb-dv1-9-367.hamilton.auracom.net] has joined #Soylent
[23:43:07] <Landon> lot of benefit from having different people that only now saw the topic chiming in
[23:43:17] <Landon> but... their site *whistles and walks away*
[23:43:27] <arti> perhaps it has to do with the format, limitations of the design?
[23:44:13] <arti> it's not really a discussion site, either way it's an awesome resource. i totally emulate my wikipedia habits of getting off topic
[23:44:23] * arti likes a lot of the grammar stuff
[23:44:31] <Cyprus> stack overflow is almost useless
[23:44:35] <Cyprus> due to their policies
[23:44:57] <Cyprus> its only good for entry programmers to get bad practices from
[23:45:16] <Landon> I like browsing through hot network questions though
[23:45:30] <Landon> my guilty addiction is reading the harry potter questions when I should be on stackoverflow instead...
[23:45:35] <arti> hahaha
[23:45:36] <Cyprus> hot network questions?
[23:45:42] <Landon> right side of the page, scroll down
[23:45:49] <Landon> and it's got hot questions from all of the stackexchange sites
[23:45:56] <Landon> "How long is a cat's memory?"
[23:46:02] <arti> oh the stackexchange are like what cable channels are to most people
[23:46:05] <Landon> "Singular of 'dice'"
[23:46:13] <Cyprus> they finally got around to making a network section?
[23:46:17] <Landon> "17th Century affectionate term for Mother"
[23:46:17] <arti> ...o.o
[23:47:20] <arti> "What etiquette should a new player observe at the gaming table?"
[23:47:25] <michealpwalls> I can't log-in either.
[23:47:29] <michealpwalls> hehe
[23:47:47] <arti> "Could a hard drive actually have been erased as described in Cryptonomicon?"
[23:48:12] <arti> you know, it might be fun to scrape these
[23:49:10] <Landon> https://physics.stackexchange.com
[23:49:24] <arti> HAH "How come squeezing a water bottle makes the water come out?"
[23:49:25] <Landon> I like the ones like ^ that sound stupid, but are actually things I grapple with occasionally
[23:49:29] <arti> jinx
[23:49:49] <arti> pressure!
[23:49:58] <Landon> haha
[23:50:05] <Landon> question is actually about "conservation of volume"
[23:50:17] <arti> my neighbors could learn about that...
[23:50:24] <arti> :P
[23:50:30] <Landon> doho
[23:50:40] <arti> landon++
[23:50:40] <deadpeas> karma - landon: 17
[23:53:30] Blackmoore is now known as Blackmoore|lostatsea
[23:53:38] <Blackmoore|lostatsea> gnight!
[23:54:08] <arti> nite
[23:54:13] <michealpwalls> LMAO my bad, user error :P
[23:55:30] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[23:57:25] -!- Woods has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[23:57:44] mrcool|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[23:59:54] * mrcoolbp pokes NCommander back