#Soylent | Logs for 2015-07-13
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[01:09:11] <SpallsHurgenson> <yawn> seventh inning stretch
[01:14:06] * SpallsHurgenson buys himself a new joystick so he can shoot down the bad, bad spacemen
[01:31:17] <SpallsHurgenson> geez, I sliced my finger this morning and it still hasn't fully closed.
[01:34:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Volcanic Rocks Resembling Roman Concrete Explain Record Uplift in Italian Caldera - http://sylnt.us - hard-core
[01:34:36] <SpallsHurgenson> so... Romans built the volcanoes too? Man, those guys built EVERYTHING
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[01:46:16] <Ethanol-fueled> My eyes, man. They're like Chinese.
[01:47:02] <Ethanol-fueled> Eyeballs being sucked inside my head.
[01:50:22] <Ethanol-fueled> The minor pentatonic scale plays whenever Chinemen are around.
[01:50:34] <Ethanol-fueled> Usually with a shamisen or marimba.
[01:56:04] <Ethanol-fueled> My gut is rumbling with phaarts.
[02:02:08] <Ethanol-fueled> https://www.youtube.com
[02:02:11] <exec> └─ 13Char-Lee Chann sings CHING CHONG Chinaman - YouTube
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[02:18:17] * SpallsHurgenson looks for something to watch
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[02:47:50] <Ethanol-fueled> https://www.youtube.com
[02:47:53] <exec> └─ 13GG Allin - Diarrhea Blues - YouTube
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[03:01:28] <Ethanol-fueled> https://www.youtube.com
[03:01:30] <exec> └─ 13Johnny Cash - God Bless Robert E. Lee - YouTube
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[03:35:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Boeing Patent Puts Focus on Laser-Powered Propulsion System - http://sylnt.us - laser-powered-space-sharks-with-lasers
[04:36:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Satoru Iwata, President & CEO of Nintendo, Dies at Age 55 - http://sylnt.us
[05:37:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Algorithm Translates 40 Years of UN Refugee Data to Music - http://sylnt.us - ready-for-the-remix
[06:05:44] <arti> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
[06:06:19] <arti> Quickly, we need more keycaps. Dig!
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[07:38:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Game Theory Explains Why Politicians Are Hypocrites - http://sylnt.us - voters-to-prosecuted-for-conspiracy-to-corrupt
[07:39:05] <FatPhil> What if selfies are just a fad created by the NSA such that they could get as much face-recognition data as possible?
[07:39:29] <FatPhil> ~weather tallinn
[07:39:31] <exec> 03Tallinn, Estonia - currently 59°F / 15°C, partly cloudy, wind NW at 6 mph, humidity 63% - Monday partly cloudy (51°F-63°F / 11°C-17°C), Tuesday scattered showers (52°F-65°F / 11°C-18°C), Wednesday partly cloudy (52°F-66°F / 11°C-19°C), Thursday mostly sunny (52°F-68°F / 11°C-20°C)
[07:44:28] <nick> it's almost irrelevant if they created it, vanity pervades modern society, they (NSA) would be bad at their jobs if they didn't take advantage of it
[07:45:05] <arti> narcissism++
[07:45:05] <Bender> karma - narcissism: 1
[07:45:52] <crutchy> ++coffee
[07:45:53] <crutchy> coffee++
[07:45:53] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1503
[07:48:23] <nick> arti, i cant blame a lot of people for it in general, we are judged on appearances so much
[07:48:50] <crutchy> especially on the internet
[07:49:52] <nick> if someone puts their face online in a public forum, there are going to be some nasty comments
[07:50:01] <nick> i dont know why thats inevitable, but it is for some reason
[07:50:02] <crutchy> lucky for me i look like elvis
[07:50:47] <nick> yesterday when i walked to the shop, a woman crossed the street to avoid walking by me, i saw her come round the corner, see me, take a little double step and then quickly cross the street
[07:51:32] <crutchy> wow. i stop reading the news for a couple of days and all of a sudden the IMF has bought greece
[07:51:55] <nick> from the news i heard this morning, the IMF isn't involved directly at this current phase
[07:52:15] <nick> although through the back door they are, as part of the group of 'international creditors'
[07:52:27] <crutchy> love this pic http://static01.nyt.com
[07:52:37] <nick> there was a BBC article last night before the deal was official, that i thought was extremely interesting
[07:53:15] <crutchy> the deal was probably made 6 months ago. its just taken them this long to figure out how to sell the story to the public
[07:53:17] <nick> here are the key bits that make you think...
[07:53:27] <nick> - International creditors to work on the ground in Athens and have full oversight of draft legislation
[07:53:27] <nick> - Possible transfer of €50bn in "valuable" Greek assets to external fund for eventual privatisation
[07:53:52] <nick> international creditors now run the greek government, will allocate themselves a 50bn bonus for their troubles
[07:54:00] <nick> greek people to be not offered lube
[07:54:09] <crutchy> privatising sounds reasonable. its what most other countries do to reduce debt
[07:54:22] <nick> 'privatising' to whom though
[07:54:27] <nick> certainly not greek enterprise
[07:54:38] <crutchy> whoever is dumb enough to buy it
[07:54:51] <crutchy> same as anywhere i guess
[07:54:56] <nick> privitising to government backed mutlinational corporations/banks/institutions most likely i'd think
[07:55:04] <nick> well, the whole idea of 'paying down the debt' is laughable
[07:55:12] <nick> when the 50bn they stand to 'make' from that
[07:55:23] <nick> is countered by the 53bn they just got as part of this 'deal'
[07:55:36] <nick> so in reality, if everything goes to plan
[07:55:40] <nick> we're back to where we were yesterday
[07:55:51] <crutchy> i guess that's the cost of leaving it this long. if they got their shit together earlier they might have had more options
[07:55:53] <nick> just the TBTF's got a new round of 50bn in assets to leverage into 500bn
[07:56:46] <crutchy> this is what other countries (including the USA) are gunna have to deal with 'eventually'
[07:57:09] <crutchy> if you don't pay your bills, the repo man comes to town
[07:57:18] <nick> the theory is, because greece decided to play the game, the USA wont have soon
[07:57:27] <nick> because stability can return and the bubbles can continue to grow
[07:57:37] <crutchy> for a little while maybe
[07:57:55] <nick> the question is, who is the repo man
[07:58:05] <nick> when the US and the rest of Europe cant repay its debts?
[07:58:18] <crutchy> whoever owns US debt and has huge army
[07:58:26] <crutchy> (china, russia, etc)
[07:58:59] <nick> i think most of the US debt is actually held by US based private banks, and the federal reserve
[07:59:10] <nick> the china/russia owned debt is a relatively small piece of that
[07:59:25] <crutchy> china already has the US over a barrel. they can choose to penetrate whenever it suits them. they have enough gold to offset writing off tanked treasuries
[08:00:15] <nick> things are changing, in interesting ways, but it's far more complex than a comparison to our personal finances
[08:02:01] <crutchy> the balance sheets might be waaaay more complicated and involve many more zeros, but in the end a country is not much different to a family. a country can print money, but i can also write an iou. both are only worth anything if the person you give them to has faith that you'll pay them back
[08:02:19] <nick> our whole financial system is based on debt and the debt forever growing, economic growth only exists in the system if there is debt to finance it. which is why we have things like zero-interest rates and QE, to keep debt 'affordable' at least in the short term.
[08:02:53] <nick> in the most simple terms you're right, but you also dont get to legally hold a gun to someone elses head when one of those IOU's come due
[08:03:04] <nick> which the government does have a monopoly on
[08:04:12] <crutchy> government has hold sway over its own citizens, but in the case of US debt in particular, there is a fair chunk held by foreign governments that also have guns (and nukes)
[08:04:21] <crutchy> not that i think it will ever get to nukes
[08:04:31] <crutchy> well, i hope not :/
[08:04:32] <nick> as well as the ability to create hundreds of different forms of IOU's of varying complexity, completely hidden from the real market, only available to those who have complete faith in the system, the same people who happen to hold all of our bank accounts
[08:04:48] <nick> yeah, but the government can hold the gun to the US citizens, to pay off the chinese
[08:04:55] <crutchy> true
[08:05:05] <crutchy> gold confiscation might eventually happen
[08:05:43] <crutchy> the other thing that might be at risk is superannuation (or 401k or whatever they called in other countries)
[08:05:51] <crutchy> big money in those
[08:06:20] <nick> if the chinese are sensible, they're more interested in totally undermining the US global financial system/petrodollar
[08:06:29] <nick> than actually anticipating any of the debt to get repaid
[08:06:39] <crutchy> i think they might already be doing that
[08:06:48] <nick> they'll use it as a way of fucking the US, but if they were as smart as they're supposed to be
[08:06:59] <nick> they should know they're never going to get that 'money' back
[08:07:09] <nick> and if they did, inflation would make it worthless
[08:07:53] <nick> interesting phrase that has been used here, in the UK, the government doesn't "pay off debt" they "retire loans"
[08:08:01] <nick> which is their fancy way of saying, we got a new loan to pay off the old one.
[08:09:02] <crutchy> i think saudi arabia is using its foreign reserves to get by while holding down oil prices. that could be considered a sort of economic weapon
[08:09:29] <nick> saudi arabia appear to have seen the writing on the wall
[08:09:58] <nick> and are making efforts to distance themselves from the US so not to appear adversarial to China
[08:10:53] <nick> I am interested to see where things go with the NDB and AIIB, im sure key develeopments are to be well reported in our totally independent media...
[08:11:16] <crutchy> ~define CIS
[08:11:19] <exec> [urbandictionary] 03cis: Short for "cisgender" (opposite of "transgender"), used to describe someone whose gender identity matches their anatomical gender at birth.Occasionally used derogatorily.
[08:11:24] <crutchy> lol
[08:11:31] <crutchy> not the one i was looking for
[08:12:06] <crutchy> derp
[08:12:12] <crutchy> SCO
[08:12:43] <crutchy> ww3 might end up being between NATO and SCO
[08:12:45] <crutchy> https://en.wikipedia.org
[08:12:50] <exec> └─ 13Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[08:14:48] <nick> "According to Zbigniew Brzezinski's theory, control of the Eurasian landmass is the key to global domination and control of Central Asia is the key to control of the Eurasian landmass....Russia and China have been paying attention to Brzezinski's theory, since they formed the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation in 2001, ostensibly to curb extremism in the region and enhance border security, but
[08:14:48] <nick> most probably with the real objective of counterbalancing the activities of the United States and NATO in Central Asia"
[08:14:57] <nick> good ol' Zbigniew
[08:15:35] <crutchy> its an interesting tinfoil scenario :p
[08:15:52] <nick> ww3 as a result is unlikely
[08:16:13] <crutchy> if the USA has another economic crisis i dunno if they will be able to pay their military let alone maintain their arsenal
[08:16:19] <nick> but it would be foolish for the other superpowers of the world to go 'oh well, of course US interests are one the priority'
[08:16:49] <nick> crutchy, a big scary enemy is all it will take for things to be serious enough that there's no time to worry about the money and debt
[08:16:56] <nick> we have a war to fight, for freedom and democracy you know
[08:18:43] <nick> that is, until the people you are trying to free and give democracy to
[08:19:02] <nick> dont vote the right way and dont leave the door open to certain interest groups
[08:19:09] <nick> see greece today
[08:22:09] <crutchy> china can buy a lot of US real estate for a trillion dollars
[08:23:07] <crutchy> could probably buy a lot of US politicians too :p
[08:23:44] <nick> "In what a senior EU official described as an “exercise in extensive mental waterboarding” to secure Greek acquiescence to talks on a third bailout in five years worth up to €86bn "
[08:24:17] <nick> so the 50bn is the headline, but in reality, 'greece is broke, to save greece, they need to borrow 86bn more to keep international creditors happy for the next couple years'
[08:25:13] <crutchy> kinda sounds a bit like the federal reserve
[08:25:23] <nick> its exactly like the federal reserve
[08:25:32] <nick> being that the federal reserve basically runs the IMF
[08:25:48] <nick> and the global financial system for the most part works on USD
[08:25:53] <nick> which is backed by the federal reserve
[08:26:15] <crutchy> haha 'backed'
[08:26:21] <nick> you know what i mean
[08:26:32] <crutchy> yup :D
[08:26:43] <crutchy> actually its backed by the US military sort of
[08:27:01] <crutchy> 'if you don't use US dollars, we'll pound your ass back to the stone age'
[08:27:06] <nick> also note the employment history of the ECB president
[08:27:25] <nick> no vested interests there after an illustrious career at Goldman Sachs
[08:27:51] <nick> same as the governer of the BoE, canadian, goldman sachs, 'made QE fashionable'
[08:28:29] <crutchy> john_maynard_keynes--
[08:28:29] <Bender> karma - john_maynard_keynes: -1
[08:28:50] <nick> http://www.bankofengland.co.uk
[08:29:05] <nick> "This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans"
[08:29:14] <nick> what could go wrong?
[08:29:21] <crutchy> fractional reserve banking
[08:29:51] <crutchy> if it weren't for 'too big to fail' that wouldn't be as much of a problem
[08:30:04] <crutchy> cos banks that had feck all reserves wouldn't get any business
[08:30:08] <nick> if it wernt for over 100 years of banking history, it wouldnt be as much of a problem
[08:30:58] <crutchy> shoddy banks should be allowed to go bankrupt, and take down the savings of everyone stupid enough to bank with them
[08:31:24] <nick> my understanding is, thats what they did during the great depression
[08:31:38] <nick> which was the whole point of it, to make sure it didnt happen to the ones that got left behind
[08:32:17] <crutchy> someone has to be left behind though
[08:32:22] <nick> destory the competition, use government to make sure it cant happen to you in the future, raise barrier to entry
[08:32:43] <crutchy> without risk, you infect the system with moral hazard
[08:32:43] <nick> someone was, JP Morgan
[08:33:11] <nick> i agree
[08:34:04] <crutchy> when i choose to keep my hard earned savings with a bank, i should be interested in whether i think they're running a sound business. nowadays people bank with big banks that are propped up by government, that absent propping would go bankrupt
[08:34:35] <nick> the point is, you dont have a choice
[08:34:44] <nick> for most people there is no option but 'big banks'
[08:34:47] <nick> that are propped up by government
[08:34:53] <crutchy> all that needs to happen is for those props to be kicked out and people will bank more carefully again
[08:35:11] <nick> yeah, but everything collapses as a result and we have to start from all over again
[08:35:18] <nick> all those people who made 'billions' since the 1950's
[08:35:22] <nick> sudenly, lost it all
[08:35:28] <crutchy> there are credit unions, but mostly nobody can compete with big banks, because nobody can compete with the treasury thats backing them
[08:36:07] <crutchy> problem is its gunna collapse eventually. the difference is the height of the fall
[08:36:15] <crutchy> keep putting it off = bigger fall
[08:36:32] <crutchy> get it over with now = limit the fall
[08:36:43] <crutchy> its always gunna hurt though
[08:36:44] <nick> pretty much half the credit unions disappeared in the UK before and during the financial crisis
[08:37:00] <crutchy> they can't compete with the UK treasury either
[08:37:01] <nick> crutchy, i completely agree, but it's not us that are stopping that
[08:37:20] <nick> it's the people who made it big out of the system as it stands, they did well, they worked hard, so they deserve what they got
[08:37:31] <nick> but they cant imagine that the system that it's all based on, is a load of bullshit
[08:37:47] <nick> it undermines national security and democracy to have a serious evaluation of things like fractional reserve banking
[08:38:00] <nick> unless you talk about 'moving reserves from 6% to 8%'
[08:38:04] <nick> thats as serious as it can get
[08:38:33] <nick> "Over the past 40 years (from 2014) the banking system in the UK has experienced a 'dramatic shift' with total assets increasing from 100% of GDP to 450%, and it is 'plausible that the UK banking system will continue to grow rapidly', due to its probable 'comparative advantage' in international banking services, with the pre-eminence of London as a financial centre traceable to the 18th and
[08:38:33] <nick> 19th centuries."
[08:39:09] <crutchy> the next financial crisis will hit hard. it will make lehman brothers look small
[08:39:17] <nick> oh indeed
[08:39:30] <nick> my opinion is, we're about to start that cycle in the coming months
[08:40:04] <nick> Q3-4 of 2015 is the new 2007
[08:40:46] <nick> i made that prediction last year, and so far, i havnt had to revise it
[08:41:08] <crutchy> have a look at this
[08:41:12] <crutchy> http://www.marketwatch.com
[08:41:18] <exec> └─ 13DJIA Index Charts - Dow Jones Industrial Average Interactive Index Charts - MarketWatch
[08:41:33] <nick> yup
[08:41:41] <crutchy> first peak is just before '00, the next is just before '08
[08:41:51] <crutchy> the peak that's building up is massive
[08:41:54] <crutchy> now
[08:42:04] <nick> thats the whole point, we learned nothing from the 2008 situation
[08:42:13] <nick> and just loaded up more debt
[08:42:33] <nick> by 'we' i mean the .gov and banks
[08:42:57] <nick> and for all the 'paying down' of debt and deficit the governments are claiming to to
[08:43:06] <crutchy> that's why i don't think greece is gunna be alone for long
[08:43:17] <nick> whilst doing everything they can to ignore the levels of consumer and private debt are growing in parallel to whatever they're cutting from public finances
[08:47:55] <nick> neighbours put their house up for sale a few weeks ago, sold within a couple days
[08:48:01] <nick> they only moved in last year
[08:48:17] <nick> in that time, the value/sale price of the property went up £100,000
[08:48:39] <nick> ($155,000)
[08:49:00] <nick> thats the only place 'growth' has been coming from in the UK economy since the 80's
[08:50:15] <crutchy> property in melbourne and sydney is very expensive. i live out in the sticks so i was lucky enough to able to serve a mortage for a little old 3 bedroom house with a decent backyard for under AU$200k
[08:50:27] <nick> head stays in sand, because if it doesn't, the UK might have to accept that a relatively small island nation with 70million people and little to offer in natural resources, is punching way above its weight, and being a hub for international finance is not going to last forever.
[08:50:35] <crutchy> melb/syd are in millions territory now :/
[08:50:56] <nick> when i was in aus, melb was supposed to be expensive then
[08:51:04] <nick> but it was still really cheap compared to what im used to here
[08:51:20] <nick> house was twice the size for half the money, and beach was 5 minutes away.
[08:51:47] <crutchy> you in UK yeah?
[08:51:48] <nick> neighbours house sold for just under $1m USD i believe
[08:51:56] <crutchy> UK would be expensive i guess
[08:52:04] <nick> it's a regular, 3 bedroom semidetatched in the london suburbs
[08:52:11] <nick> no driveway, small yard
[08:52:30] <crutchy> sounds like the tiny townhouses in sydney
[08:52:37] <nick> but dont worry, minimum wage will be £9 in 2020, so property ownership wont be out of reach....
[08:53:03] <crutchy> there will just be more borrowers to bid up the prices even more :p
[08:53:14] <nick> government works on ways of subsidizing
[08:53:23] <nick> ie, the government borrows more to pick up the tab on people who cant afford houses
[08:53:30] <nick> but as long as house prices only go up
[08:53:32] <nick> everything is ok
[08:53:42] <nick> it's a scare story in the news here if 'house price growth slows'
[08:54:06] <crutchy> seems to be the same here so some degree. slowing home prices is a boogeyman
[08:54:16] <nick> because we have all our eggs in the real estate basket, and that basket only exists because we're a middleman for international commerce and finance
[08:54:48] <nick> at least in AUD there is natural resources and opportunity develop manufacturing and industry
[08:54:58] <nick> aus, not AUD. money ¬_¬
[08:55:38] <nick> from my experience in aus, the people in aus will get on just fine no matter what happens to the financial markets
[08:55:51] <nick> here, financial services are the heart and soul of the country
[08:56:33] <crutchy> i live on top of the biggest known reserve of brown coal in the world, so as long as people like me are breathing the shitty air chugging out of the nearby coal power plants, the greenies in the capital cities get to berate people like me on their electronic devices all day long
[08:57:59] <nick> but if our energy wasn't based on finite and hard to obtain resources, then how would money be made from it?!
[08:58:13] <crutchy> hard to obtain?
[08:58:21] <crutchy> its about 50 ft under my house
[08:58:27] <nick> under your house maybe
[08:58:34] <nick> 50ft under mine? no.
[08:58:40] <crutchy> the valley where i live is full of open cut coal mines
[08:58:47] <crutchy> ah
[08:59:03] <nick> the coal under your house supplies the houses in the cities and me and all that jazz
[08:59:10] <nick> we dont have control over our own energy supply and resources
[08:59:19] <nick> if we did, there wouldnt be money to be made
[08:59:29] <nick> and energy wouldnt be the big industry it is
[08:59:56] <crutchy> solar is gaining popularity here, but demand has only slowed. everyone loves electricity
[09:00:02] <nick> think of the stories about 'you cant harvest rainwater that falls on your property, because that affects the water table, which is public property'
[09:00:23] <crutchy> wow that would suck. is that for real in britain?
[09:00:34] <crutchy> here there are tanks in lots of back yards
[09:00:38] <nick> it's complicated, but i believe it originated in britain
[09:00:41] <nick> but has been used recently in the US
[09:00:45] <nick> to stop people going off grid
[09:01:07] <nick> and the solar thing is interesting, my cynical mind read a story about how they're going to use solar panels on peoples houses to feed the grid
[09:01:10] <crutchy> sewerage connection is expensive here
[09:01:14] <nick> which sounds all fine and dandy
[09:01:20] <nick> save money on your bills, sustainability
[09:01:34] <nick> but when the grid goes down, the solar systems are supposed to shut down also, to stop 'damaging the grid'
[09:01:46] <nick> so while we will have solar panels on our houses, we wont really have control over them
[09:02:43] <crutchy> the government here had a big subsidy for a few years to encourage people onto solar. i think so they could get out of forking out for another base load power station for a few more years. apparently you could sell power to the grid, but its not much. the biggest turn off for me was that the equipment only has about a 10-15 year life, and insurance companies won't cover them
[09:03:15] <crutchy> couldn't you just 'unplug' your solar from the grid and use it yourself?
[09:03:34] <nick> http://www.washingtonpost.com
[09:03:39] <exec> └─ 13It is actually illegal in Colorado to collect the rain that falls on your home - The Washington Post
[09:03:48] <nick> i'm assuming the 'government approved' systems, which you can connect to the grid
[09:03:51] <nick> wont have that option
[09:04:14] <crutchy> if that law ever got passed here i reckon people would just ignore it en masse :p
[09:04:33] <nick> im sure you can still run your own solar panel setups, if the local government allows planning permission to install those 'non-certified' panels on your property
[09:04:34] <crutchy> or hide tanks under their houses
[09:05:19] <nick> oh, of course
[09:05:33] <crutchy> getting planning permits for stuff is hard here sometimes, but mainly cos councils are incompetent and understaffed
[09:05:37] <nick> but the general point im making is, energy independence is not what we're supposed to be doing
[09:05:49] <nick> regardless of how 'green' and 'renewable' energy gets
[09:05:56] <nick> we're still going to have to pay a utility company for i9t
[09:05:58] <nick> it*
[09:06:06] <crutchy> true
[09:06:22] <crutchy> gotta go put kiddies to bed
[09:06:47] <nick> nod
[09:14:18] <FatPhil> Has anyone dabbled with devuan?
[09:16:08] <FatPhil> nick: rainwater in the UK was always the property of the local water board and therefore water butts were technically illegal.
[09:16:44] <nick> FatPhil: thanks for that bit of info, i know i read after the US stuff, the origins of it in the UK in the 1800's i think?
[09:17:27] <nick> cant help you with devuan sadly :(
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[09:18:12] <nick> from a brief google/wiki, does not seem like a very mature project - so could be a gamble
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[09:25:20] <janrinok> nick: you still on here?
[09:31:18] <nick> aye
[09:40:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Satoru Iwata, President & CEO of Nintendo, Dies at Age 55 - http://sylnt.us || The EFF, Glenn Greenwald and R.J. Reynolds in 1994 - http://sylnt.us - smoking-gun-found-next-to-skeleton-in-closet
[09:44:01] <janrinok> sorry nick I was typing an email to mrcoolbp. I'm a bit concerned with the TTIP story - I cannot find any 'leaked' information that is not already included in the EU negotiation website.
[09:44:55] <janrinok> I have looked through dozens of the new 'leaked' docs and, while they do not exist in the same format on the EU site, their contents _do_ appear in the various docs.
[09:46:08] <janrinok> did you find anything that leads you to think we are on to a hot story here? I saw the sub last night but couldn't find anything to suggest that I should release it as hot news
[09:46:56] <nick> i looked at it last night also but didnt really go into detail on it
[09:47:35] <nick> im not all that with it right now either, so probably not the best person to check it out right now
[09:47:43] <janrinok> I'm happy for it to be released, but I'm not sure that c0lo is on to a hot scoop here
[09:47:56] <nick> only got about 2 hours of sleep last night, and that was only 15 minutes at a time
[09:48:02] <nick> no one else seems to have picked it up yet
[09:48:04] <janrinok> it's not your problem but you the only other experienced ed around at present
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[09:49:01] <nick> i did do some checking on it, and no other news site has picked it up
[09:49:23] <nick> im not aware of the content, but i would have assumed it would have circulated by now if it was 'new'
[09:49:28] <janrinok> the other question that I have is that people are submitting items as breaking news when , to me, they patently are not. The fact that a chap died 2 days ago is hardly breaking news, no matter how important his death is. We need to all get around and chat on this I think?
[09:50:18] <janrinok> Breaking news, to me, is something that we move other stories out of the way for, and is usually a story that is developing as we release our bits.
[09:50:43] <nick> yeah, it's not breaking news, and wasnt really edited as such
[09:51:03] <nick> apparently last week wikileaks did release some TiSA documents
[09:51:09] <janrinok> no, but some eds are just pushing them through as submitted, and not thinking about it
[09:53:07] <janrinok> anyway - I'll leave you to your busy day. Hope it all goes well for you. Laters nick
[09:53:37] <nick> im guessing it just wasnt noticed, if c0lo submitted it as breaking and bytram didn't see, or thought it wasn't important to change
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[09:53:56] <nick> but the story in itself, im with you on not being sure if there's anything truly new in there
[09:54:04] <nick> i think i could do with a nap actually
[09:54:10] <janrinok> I've changed 2 stories this morning that were being released as breaking - but I felt that they shouldn't
[09:54:28] <janrinok> I'm sure the community will let us know :)
[09:56:41] <nick> i doubt the community notices for the most part
[09:56:53] <janrinok> lol - cynical you needs a nap :)
[09:57:03] <nick> the nintento one was fair, as it was pushed through when it was 'breaking news'
[09:57:09] <nick> even if it wasnt a time sensitive story
[09:57:24] <nick> wasnt essential, but at the time the story was released, it had only just been made public
[09:57:33] <janrinok> well, as you say, the poor chap dying does not mean that we move other stories to put it our
[09:57:41] <janrinok> it out*
[09:58:18] <janrinok> gtg - nursing duties call!
[09:58:23] <nick> take care
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[10:46:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:46:14] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1504
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[11:41:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Massive Leak on TTIP Documents - http://sylnt.us - sunshine-is-the-best-disinfectant
[11:42:15] <cmn32480_travelin> coffee++
[11:42:15] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1505
[11:42:21] <cmn32480_travelin> stupid airports...
[12:34:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> ewww, suck
[12:39:18] <janrinok_afk> TheMightyBuzzard: hi
[12:39:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[12:39:24] janrinok_afk is now known as janrinok
[12:39:37] <janrinok> afternoon to you - how's things?
[12:39:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> aside from needing a smoke, pretty fair
[12:40:27] <janrinok> been fishing recently?
[12:40:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, couple times this weekend. didn't amount to much but it was still fishing.
[12:41:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> neato: http://www.coindesk.com
[12:41:09] <janrinok> I don't know why, but I tend to associate you fishing as indicator of your phyiscal wellbeing - how content you are with the world :)
[12:41:09] <exec> └─ 13NanoCard Crypto-Debit Card Aims to be Bitcoin’s Killer App - Press Release
[12:42:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeurg, ima hafta deal with bitmasks if i wanna make this db properly search-friendly
[12:42:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> i hate bitmasks
[12:43:04] <Gravis> NCommander: when you visit another person's profile it looks like you are that person by virtue of putting the logout button under their name
[12:43:28] <Gravis> TheMightyBuzzard: what's wrong with bitmasks?
[12:43:35] <janrinok> hi Gravis
[12:44:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> Gravis, they cause extra coding on my part
[12:44:19] <Gravis> janrinok: hello individual.
[12:46:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:47:10] <Gravis> /facepalm
[12:47:54] <janrinok> Gravis: ?
[12:50:29] <Gravis> janrinok: you have failed to include words with your question mark.
[12:50:50] <janrinok> I am wondering why you felt it necessary to facepalm
[12:51:50] <Gravis> janrinok: because it pains me to read that people still smoke despite understanding how bad it is for you
[12:52:21] <janrinok> ah!
[12:53:42] <Gravis> it's like aiming a gun at your foot and saying, "this is going to hurt," proceeding to shot youself in the foot and then screaming in disbelief how much it hurts.
[12:54:03] <janrinok> probably because, despite the health hazards associated with smoking, it gives them pleasure and helps them to feel better. But, as an anti smoker, it is not something I do...
[12:55:36] <Gravis> well... i can only hope that the cancer takes his life quickly as to no bleed our medical systems of any more resources than needed
[12:56:03] <janrinok> I take it that you are not a touchy, feely kind of person?
[12:56:33] <Gravis> what? whatever makes you say that? :P
[12:56:42] <janrinok> :)
[12:57:34] <Gravis> i have a low tolerance for willful ignorance.
[13:01:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> has nothing to do with ignorance. i simply choose an enjoyable life over a long one.
[13:04:34] <janrinok> TheMightyBuzzard: which bit of code are you working on today?
[13:05:15] <Gravis> TheMightyBuzzard: in that case, please forgo any cancer treatment because while it may make you life longer it will make you feel lousy.
[13:05:28] <Gravis> live*
[13:05:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, working on a script for guild banks for an everquest emulator server at the moment. goof off code.
[13:06:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> Gravis, i'd planned on it for that very reason.
[13:06:21] <janrinok> I was wondering where that fitted into the SN portfolio :)
[13:06:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> but my family has basically zero history of cancer despite many of them smoking.
[13:07:11] <Gravis> TheMightyBuzzard: that's fine. you may die of something else first but everyone evetually gets cancer
[13:07:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, well i'll be opening the server up to the community probably end of year after i upgrade the ram but it ain't official otherwise.
[13:07:50] <janrinok> you mentioned it the other day, I'll give it a look once it is up and running.
[13:08:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> Gravis, COPD is far more likely.
[13:08:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh it's up and running now. i was playing on it just this morning. just can't handle more than a half dozen zones loaded at once, so pretty limited population.
[13:09:22] <Gravis> sounds like fun
[13:09:44] <janrinok> do you have to devise the topology from scratch or is it largely automated?
[13:09:55] <janrinok> or should that be topography?
[13:10:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, it's pretty much all built. about half the zones are broken but there are about 700 zones, so no worries.
[13:10:47] <janrinok> that was a lot of work by somebody
[13:11:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep. i'm slowly going through and tweaking broken zones to work at the level of play that i want for this server.
[13:12:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> most zones you can solo, some you should probably have a group for, some you need a group for. none of them are raid level zones though because raids annoy me.
[13:12:30] <Gravis> reminds me of the AI that made a bunch more mario levels
[13:12:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Warning - Firefox Has You in the Pocket - http://sylnt.us - more-you-share-the-more-you-care
[13:12:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooh... fun.
[13:14:40] <Gravis> though i wonder if people would dislike if someone mod'd the game to have infinte levels by simply generating every level right before playing.
[13:15:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably not if they knew that going in.
[13:16:42] <Gravis> it just reminds me of arcade games that would glitch out after you beat X number of levels because it was never expected someone would make it that far
[13:17:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> or overflow if you got your score too high, yeah
[13:18:31] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[13:20:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> the hard part of publicizing my server is going to be telling people how to get the client. the powers that be apparently don't care if the client is shared through whatever means and they've made no attempts to shut down the emulator software but distributing the client is still technically copyright infringement.
[13:20:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can get it through legit means by downloading it from steam but that requires some hoops jumping.
[13:21:53] <Gravis> cant get it on gog?
[13:23:12] <Gravis> oh everquest! for some reason i was thinking Ultima VIII
[13:25:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> client's free on steam. hell play on the official servers is free up to level 85 out of 100.
[14:44:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Battle Against Destructive Beetles Hits Hurdle - http://sylnt.us - stop-bugging-me
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[16:01:06] <Cyprus> you guys are making me miss Winter's Roar
[16:03:43] <nick> "Hon Hai otherwise known in the West as Foxconn, last month revealed it was setting its sights on India due to increasing wage costs in China."
[16:04:26] <AndyTheAbsurd> heh
[16:06:18] <nick> $1.50/hr is just too much
[16:06:36] <nick> how can you run a business when you have to pay employees?
[16:07:21] <Cyprus> you lobby for free trade =)
[16:09:47] <nick> those chinese are getting too comfortable with the idea of a hard days work for a poor days wage, need to learn that the world is a competitive place clearly
[16:15:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - June 2015 TOP500 Supercomputer List Released, Tianhe-2 Still Leads - http://sylnt.us - but-does-it-run...-OK,-you've-heard-it-before
[17:15:56] <swiss> https://i.imgur.com
[17:20:31] <nick> well thats the most simplistic assesment of the greek situation ive seen this week
[17:26:48] <swiss> though it's hilarious
[17:28:15] <nick> but has very little basis in reality
[17:29:02] <nick> it's the caricature we're supposed to believe, the lazy/stupid greeks just want handouts forever.
[17:29:14] <nick> when in reality it's the EU/ECB/IMF that are pushing greece to load up on more debt
[17:29:25] <AndyTheAbsurd> I want handouts forever
[17:29:28] <swiss> eh, i'm in the boat that once Greece gave democracy to the world, they gave up on contributing
[17:29:44] <swiss> it's sfw
[17:29:45] <swiss> woops
[17:29:49] <swiss> fuckin scroll wheel
[17:30:12] <swiss> i'm wondering when the EU will kick out Greece
[17:30:14] <nick> yeah well, that will change when greece gets liquidated and the international finance vultures pick over what remains
[17:30:31] janrinok_afk is now known as janrinok
[17:30:53] <nick> the popular rhetoric ignores the history of how this situation occured, and continues to posit the idea that the solution to the unmanagable debt burden
[17:30:56] <nick> is to load up with more debt
[17:31:32] <nick> which is obfuscated as much as possible by calling it a 'bailout' not 'another series of extremely expensive loans based'
[17:31:59] <nick> which seeks to shrink the greek economy further, to cover the short term obligations
[17:34:20] <nick> if they 'kick greece out' of the EU, then greece has no incentive to pay back any of the debt
[17:34:40] <nick> unless we are for threatening military intervention because some banks made business deals that turned out to be a bad idea
[17:34:48] <AndyTheAbsurd> does greece really have any incentive to pay back the debt now?
[17:35:07] <nick> AndyTheAbsurd, not really, but 'kicking them out of the EU' puts the final nail in that coffin
[17:36:02] <nick> "Banks could be able to offer the Bank of England shares as collateral under a scheme being considered by officials, executive director Chris Salmon has revealed."
[17:36:06] <nick> now that, is sensible economics.
[17:36:38] <nick> because fractional reserve banking just wasnt enough free money for the banks.
[17:43:22] <AndyTheAbsurd> these are private banks that made what amount to sub-prime loans to Greece, right?
[17:43:37] <nick> you are quite right AndyTheAbsurd
[17:43:51] <nick> but we cant talk about that, because it would have an adverse effect on the market
[17:43:53] <AndyTheAbsurd> If they're *that* bad at deciding who to issue credit to, they should be allowed to fail.
[17:44:28] <nick> "the European Central Bank said it can’t release files showing how Greece may have used derivatives to hide its borrowings because disclosure could still inflame the crisis threatening the future of the single currency."
[17:44:58] <nick> but as discussed earlier, economic growth globally is based on debt growing
[17:45:11] <nick> if debt does not grow, then economies contract
[17:45:59] <nick> string pullers: http://www.zerohedge.com
[17:46:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Another Run at Tele-Scents - http://sylnt.us - the-idea-stinks
[17:48:22] <nick> but i guess the logic is sound, the best people to 'save' the greeks from the situation, are the international institutions and finance houses that got them in it. they have the most in depth knowledge of the situation after all.
[17:49:16] <AndyTheAbsurd> they also have motivation to save their own fortunes, combined with minimal motivation to make things easy on the Greeks
[17:50:01] <nick> from what i pasted earlier, this is the most informative thing to come out of the possible deal of today
[17:50:03] <nick> "International creditors to work on the ground in Athens and have full oversight of draft legislation"
[17:50:22] <nick> no problem there apparently...
[17:55:54] <swiss> nick: the point would be getting them off the euro
[17:56:03] <swiss> that's the reason they'd boot them from the EU
[17:56:18] <swiss> if they're not on the euro, Greece's economy wouldn't have such a large influence on the value of the Euro
[17:56:59] <nick> it is the interesting part of the whole government debt debate, at no point are banks supposed to take responsibility to lending money to those who cant afford it
[17:57:48] <nick> swiss, i understand that logic, but then what seeks Portugal, Spain, Italy etc seeking a 'time out' or the boot when their time comes to be the focus point?
[17:58:22] <swiss> this isn't a "this month" issue
[17:58:28] <nick> they can talk a good game on it, but there is no mechanism for an EU exit for anyone, it's political point scoring for the other EU governments
[17:58:48] <nick> it's a global finance issue, which greece exiting the EU does not change
[18:02:26] <nick> greece will still owe the billions of euros, forgetting that is not on the table, so the fact they'll have to go through more foreign exchanges, if they setup a new currency, only makes paying off that debt more expensive, and profitable for the banks.
[18:03:41] <nick> and if history is any lesson, any slight moves in greece that the international finance groups dont like, would cause a stronger devaluation of the currency and possibly hyper-inflation, creating more debt and more problems in the persuit of 'paying back' the debt
[18:06:23] <janrinok> On the positive side, the cost of ouzo would be more favourable!
[18:06:40] <nick> that it would be
[18:07:45] <janrinok> I've just watched the news - and it seems that the only thing that we are certain of is that 1. it has yet to be actually resolved, and 2. it will all happen again sometime in the future
[18:08:20] <nick> and you can take that to the bank...
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[20:44:59] <swiss> i'm not talking about the benefit for greece - i'm talking about the benefit of the EU as a whole
[20:45:25] <swiss> and if the EU kicks greece out now, i don't think they'd be in a worse place than they were previously
[20:52:49] <K_benzoate1> Greece is in for a rough couple decades no matter what. If they go their own way with their own currency at least they can hold their heads up as free people.
[20:53:20] <nick> K_Benzoate, i agree with that, but thats not the desired result from the ECB
[20:53:41] <nick> swiss, for the EU as a whole, if greece can leave, then others can leave
[20:53:53] <nick> which means the EU might benefit as a whole, except there wont be an EU anymore
[20:54:43] <nick> "The market will celebrate the total capitulation of Greece to the EU bankers. Nothing has been resolved. The debt won’t be repaid. The can has been kicked again. Portugal, Spain, Italy, Ireland and even France are essentially insolvent. It’s all a ponzi scheme. The bankers win and the people lose. Hope is not a strategy."
[20:55:40] <swiss> either way, they're a sink on the currency atm
[20:55:44] <swiss> devaluing the Euro
[20:55:59] <nick> indeed, but the euro will be devalued regardless because the situation exists
[20:56:22] <nick> no one outside greece, and probably few inside greece as the situation stands would have any faith in a new greek currency
[20:56:52] <swiss> but if they split greece off now, the euro wouldn't *continue* to be devauled by future issues with greece as much, correct?
[20:56:58] <nick> so the euro will still be the key to trade in the region, much like the USD is elsehwere even though there's not a lot to say it's worth anythign either.
[20:57:14] <nick> swiss, it would take a massive hit as an admission that the 270bn or so that greece owes
[20:57:16] <nick> will never be paid back
[20:57:36] <swiss> though that's prettymuch assumed throughout europe right now
[20:57:42] <nick> it's assumed
[20:57:44] <nick> but it cant be said
[20:57:52] <swiss> it'd be assumed as well when they split greece off
[20:58:08] <swiss> so do they want to let it continue to become a larger number than 270bn before this happens
[20:58:21] <swiss> basically, is there any chance of greece doing anything *except* continuing to devalue the euro?
[20:58:25] <nick> no
[20:58:28] <nick> not really
[20:58:36] <nick> but the ECB is devaluing the euro itself anyway
[20:58:38] <nick> with QE
[20:58:58] <swiss> you can't fix everything at once, but that doesn't mean you should ignore a solvable problem
[20:59:03] <nick> " Bank of Japan Governor Haruhiko Kuroda summarized the view of the global central planners when he said, " trust that many of you are familiar with the story of Peter Pan, in which it says, ‘the moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease forever to be able to do it.’ Yes, what we need is a positive attitude and conviction."
[20:59:31] <nick> the solvable problem would be to take a look at the root causes of the situation
[20:59:47] <nick> not treat it like a submarine, when cracks start appearing, put a band-aid over it and hope we can go deeper
[21:00:07] <swiss> this is more "cast off dead weight"
[21:00:17] <swiss> cut your losses, don't keep gambling when you're that far in the hole
[21:00:26] <nick> thats what the greeks have basically been saying
[21:00:37] <nick> and the ECB/IMF reaction is, to solve this debt problem, you should borrow more
[21:01:04] <nick> because if they dont borrow more, they cant pay back the ECB and IMF from the last lot they borrowed
[21:01:20] <nick> the people who issue the loans need to take some responsibility when they make loans to people who cannot afford it
[21:01:28] <nick> this has so far not entered into the discussion at all
[21:02:34] <swiss> i'd say the people who gave the loans were gambling by loaning
[21:02:41] <nick> i agree totally
[21:02:45] <nick> financial investments have risk
[21:02:48] <nick> they do to us
[21:02:53] <swiss> so they need to cut their losses now
[21:02:54] <nick> but apparently not so to the TBTF
[21:02:58] <nick> i agree completely
[21:03:00] <swiss> rather than continue to pay into a sinkhole
[21:03:05] <nick> but the point is, they have no intention of doing so
[21:03:09] <swiss> cut greece out of the EU
[21:03:20] <nick> because the international financial house of cards cant take that hit
[21:03:42] <nick> we must have faith that greece will pay its debts, even though maths says they cant
[21:04:01] <nick> because if we start to lose that faith, then we might lose that faith with spain, italy, portugal, france, ireland
[21:04:17] <swiss> though greece also is partially to blame for receiving money they couldn't pay back
[21:04:35] <swiss> maybe this should be a good lesson on country's credit scores
[21:04:52] <nick> but this goes back to what i mentioned earlier
[21:05:05] <nick> the ECB cant talk about how greece cooked the books, because it would damage the Euro
[21:05:21] <nick> because the insitutions that are now trying to collect, are the ones that helped greece cook the books
[21:05:26] <swiss> what i really got from this is that I'm gonna have a really cheap vacation in greece soon
[21:05:29] <nick> they knew, they helped greece to take on debt they knew they couldnt pay
[21:05:35] <nick> and now they're playing the victtim
[21:05:37] <nick> victim*
[21:05:42] <swiss> once they cut greece, it'll be so cheap to vacation there
[21:06:04] <nick> it's always been quite cheap, and as someone who has been to greece several times
[21:06:16] <nick> all these billions, had little to no tangible effect on the average greek person
[21:07:17] <nick> the greek people, like the rest of us are just pawns in this game, we're a statistic that can be moved around, a few million people losing their homes and livelihoods are rounding error at this level.
[21:07:40] <nick> because 'stability' on spreadsheets is far more important than people
[21:08:07] <nick> foodings time
[21:13:06] <K_benzoate1> The ECB is demanding payment be extracted from Greece in real assets like land. In exchange, Greece is given *loans* which they then have to use to pay their debt! It's a screw job for the Greeks. They should walk. If their destiny is to be poor, at least be poor and free.
[21:15:05] <K_benzoate1> Greece has the potential to bounce back in a couple decades, but not if they sell off all their capital. That path will ensure they remain German serfs.
[21:19:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - BGP Fails Again or More from the 'Hacking Team' Hack - http://sylnt.us - it's-only-illegal-if-you-do-it
[21:19:39] <nick> quite right, K_benzoate1
[21:20:00] <nick> but if greece does whats best for greece, which is what you say, it's not good for the rest of us still in that system
[21:20:33] <nick> as we mentioned breifly earlier, if the 270bn got paid back, that 270bn becomes 2.7tn because fractional reserve banking
[21:20:52] <nick> the global economy is counting on that 2.7tn existing in the next few years, and that cant happen if greece does whats best for itself
[21:22:02] <nick> the rest of the worlds balance sheets are working on the idea that money will be paid back, and on time, and to challenge that undermines the private banks and the other eu member states
[21:34:52] -!- mechanicjay has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[22:03:46] <crutchy> http://tech.slashdot.org
[22:03:50] <exec> └─ 13Microsoft Temporarily Suspends Availability of Windows 10 Builds - Slashdot
[22:05:04] <crutchy> ~submit http://www.techradar.com
[22:05:10] <exec> └─ 13Samsung wants your phone to measure your body fat | TechRadar
[22:05:39] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:05:48] <crutchy> ~queue
[22:05:52] <exec> *** SN submission queue: plenty - http://sylnt.us
[22:06:04] <crutchy> ¿
[22:06:12] <crutchy> says only 7
[22:06:16] <crutchy> stupid bot
[22:06:58] <crutchy> ergh. that was a shit submission
[22:08:21] <crutchy> ++coffee
[22:08:21] <crutchy> coffee++
[22:08:22] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1506
[22:11:32] <nick> wasnt win10 supposed to be public very soon?
[22:11:46] <AndyTheAbsurd> two weeks from today IIRC
[22:12:13] <nick> anyone here actually tried it out?
[22:12:37] <SirFinkus> I had the displeasure of playing with windows 8 the other day
[22:12:58] <SirFinkus> it's pretty, but terrible to use
[22:13:55] <nick> i already know win8 is horrible to use, win10 is supposed to fix that shit, is my understanding?
[22:14:06] <SirFinkus> they got rid of easy transfer too, which caused a pain in the ass because it isn't documented
[22:14:22] <nick> especially as win10 is supposed to be the last 'major' version of windows or whatever they said?
[22:14:53] <SirFinkus> I probably spent 45 minutes trying to get it to spit out an easy transfer file on to an external only to google it and find out that it's deprecated
[22:15:06] <SirFinkus> the tool is still there, but it only reads older files
[22:15:31] <SirFinkus> apparently people don't need it anymore because of "the cloud" and roaming profiles
[22:16:09] <nick> it's getting harder and harder to enjoy using computers in the last couple of years
[22:16:18] <SirFinkus> I tried using the backup tool (labeled something like "previous file versions") and it was the most opaque thing I've ever used
[22:16:37] <nick> using windows own solutions is rarely pleasant
[22:16:39] <SirFinkus> no indication of the status of the backup, and I still haven't found the actual backup files
[22:17:03] <nick> and thats been the case for forever really, when they work it's 'good', but still quite unpleasant to actually use
[22:17:12] <SirFinkus> the easy transfer was actually good
[22:17:15] <SirFinkus> I used it all the time
[22:17:28] <SirFinkus> it worked, and was relatively fast
[22:17:40] <SirFinkus> then they slowly started getting rid of features
[22:17:40] <nick> i dont think ive ever used it
[22:17:52] <SirFinkus> they killed network support in windows 7 I think
[22:18:12] <SirFinkus> it was rather decent, you'd run the tool, it'd back up all the settings and files on a user account
[22:18:23] <SirFinkus> you could select which accounts to back up etc
[22:18:46] <SirFinkus> then it'd give you a code, you'd open the tool on the other computer, enter the code, and it'd copy everything over the network
[22:18:56] <SirFinkus> or you could use an external disk if you wanted
[22:19:12] <SirFinkus> and it worked precisely they way you'd expect it to work
[22:19:19] <nick> that does sound quite good, i'm glad i didnt use it now, if it was only to be taken away!
[22:19:47] <SirFinkus> you can still use it to move from win7 to windows 8, maybe it'll come back with windows 10
[22:20:26] <SirFinkus> I only really use windows as an appliance to launch video games these days, so it doesn't really matter too much to me
[22:21:03] <SirFinkus> well, tech support shit too, but that just makes me money, and I know I'll usually be miserable doing that anyway
[22:21:52] <nick> things are changing, as business 'moves to the cloud' and everything becomes browser based, so having windows specific software is becoming less of a thing, but it's still not far enough along yet for me to leave windows behind
[22:22:59] <nick> ive tried a few times over the years to abandon windows, always ended up coming back because of various software packages that cant be replaced or emulated on nix.
[22:23:00] <SirFinkus> Trying to explain to my grandmother the new UI in windows 8 and the reason she couldn't just keep using windows 7 with her new laptop was entertaining
[22:23:33] <SirFinkus> and it's going to change AGAIN in a few months
[22:24:28] <nick> i'm keeping an eye on the availability of win7 laptops, win7 licences are quite sought after at the moment it seems
[22:25:01] <AndyTheAbsurd> she actually could have kept using Win7 with her new laptop - if you'd bought a separate copy, and had install media with an installer that didn't give a shit what it was installed on, instead of getting a bundled version that probably didn't even *come* with install media, and if it did, probably had some BIOS checks to make sure it was installed on a machine made by the "right" manufacturer.
[22:25:58] <SirFinkus> but hey, that file copy dialog graph
[22:26:02] <SirFinkus> that is pretty nifty
[22:26:50] <SirFinkus> oh, she ended up getting one of the convertible tablet laptopy things
[22:27:01] <SirFinkus> windows 8 does not work as a tablet os
[22:28:24] <nick> when i got a windows vista laptop, had to install winxp before using it (took a month before drivers were available, didnt use it at all during that month), when i bought my win8 laptop, first thing i did was wipe it and install win7.
[22:28:54] <AndyTheAbsurd> well Win8 really doesn't work as a desktop OS either
[22:29:06] <AndyTheAbsurd> so we're pretty much just left with "Win8 doesn't work"
[22:29:14] <nick> thats been my experience, AndyTheAbsurd
[22:29:26] <nick> it's a bad desktop OS and i cant even imagine trying it as a tablet OS
[22:29:37] <SirFinkus> it works as a desktop os, you just have to fight it at every turn
[22:30:29] <AndyTheAbsurd> I'd rather fight Linux
[22:30:31] <SirFinkus> changing a network from a public one to a private one, I did something like this
[22:30:42] <SirFinkus> open start menu, type "network"
[22:31:14] <SirFinkus> open some metro ui with basically an on/off slider for the interface and a list of wireless networks
[22:31:17] <SirFinkus> so dead end
[22:31:32] <SirFinkus> open control panel, more metro bullshit, but a link to another control panel
[22:31:41] <SirFinkus> oh boy! a network icon
[22:32:14] <SirFinkus> a list of interfaces, an indicator that this is a public network, but not option to change it that I could find
[22:32:19] <takyon> All Windows 10 machines have to support Secure Boot and the ability to disable it is optional
[22:32:29] <takyon> that's my beef
[22:33:14] <SirFinkus> eventually I ended trying to map a nonexistent network drive, got a popup that let me enable file sharing on public networks, or change it the a private network
[22:33:40] <SirFinkus> I'm sure there's another way to do it, but it wasn't forthcoming, I had to prompt an error message
[22:36:22] <takyon> if it weren't for the SecureBoot uncertainty I'd have no problem with getting Windows 10 and modding away all the fancy UI
[22:36:37] <takyon> http://www.tomshardware.com
[22:36:40] <exec> └─ 13Comcast's 2 Gbps Gigabit Pro Internet Service Will Cost $299 Monthly
[22:37:57] <SirFinkus> LOL get fucked comcast
[22:38:10] <SirFinkus> I hate everything
[22:38:21] <SirFinkus> everything is getting worse
[22:39:21] <takyon> at least we're not New Horizons. 2 kbps data rate and falling, 4 hour latency and increasing
[22:39:51] <Cyprus> i just wish i could get gFiber =/
[22:39:57] <nick> i wish i could disagree SirFinkus :|
[22:40:39] <nick> gFiber?
[22:40:45] <Cyprus> google fiber
[22:41:05] <Cyprus> i don't get the point of 2gbps comcast either, i can't even saturate my 50mbps one
[22:41:20] <nick> i cant say i'd be all that excited to submit more to google
[22:41:24] <takyon> You can saturate 100 mbps with torrents
[22:41:42] <takyon> nick just throw in a $5/month VPN if you're scared
[22:41:52] <nick> 50mbps becomes not a lot with multiple people using it at the same time
[22:41:57] <Cyprus> eh you don't really give google anything by going over fiber
[22:42:02] <nick> if some are watching netflix and others are playing games online
[22:42:40] <nick> im just not a fan in general of supporting google expanding and entering more markets
[22:42:56] <takyon> pretty sure if you use Google ISP and don't use Google Accounts, you're only giving them what they legally retain under U.S. law
[22:43:04] <Cyprus> eh i'll take anything over comcast
[22:43:16] <nick> Cyprus, i can understand that frustration though
[22:43:34] <nick> if i was stuck with BT, i'd probably take google fiber if it was on offer
[22:43:35] <paulej72> I always feel like someone is watching me
[22:43:39] -!- marco_trunks [marco_trunks!~marco_tru@argh-26-554-173-22.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[22:44:28] <takyon> google fiber isn't scary, because they are far from competing nationwide
[22:44:42] * SirFinkus closes paulej72's webcam window
[22:44:51] <SirFinkus> have some privacy for a few minutes
[22:45:17] <takyon> they are just targeting market by market to shame the big ISPs, and making a profit while doing so (undermining telco arguments about profitability)
[22:45:18] <nick> not now, but thats where they want to be
[22:45:33] <paulej72> maybe I am an exhibitionist
[22:45:41] <Cyprus> i'd be more worried about the nsa
[22:45:43] <takyon> that's debatable. it'd take $50 billion+ of investment for them to "be there"
[22:45:52] <nick> this was a while ago, but i did notice the rollout of google fiber
[22:46:00] <nick> they did everything they could do create maximum coverage
[22:46:04] <nick> whilst avoiding any populated areas
[22:46:29] <Cyprus> more like avoiding anywhere that didn't have existing usable fiber infrastructure
[22:46:50] <nick> things might have changed, but thats something i noticed a year or so ago, they were going everywhere they could, where people didnt live
[22:47:01] <nick> existing fiber infrastructure that regular consumers cant afford?
[22:47:02] <takyon> people live in Kansas City
[22:47:23] <Cyprus> nashville / atlanta is hardly "noone lives there"
[22:47:49] <nick> in general terms yes, but if you looked at the areas they actually cover in those places
[22:47:53] <nick> it's not the whole story
[22:47:57] <Cyprus> no i mean large scale ftth deployments that failed and are avaliable for use
[22:48:05] <takyon> I think Provo, Utah was a unique case because they were able to snap up a failed deployment
[22:48:18] <Cyprus> american fiber failed in nashville, provo / kansas had some group
[22:48:27] <takyon> basically they were able to do what they could have done in some other city, except a lot cheaper, so why not
[22:48:30] <Cyprus> atlanta just has stupid fiber coverage thanks to the old quest stuff
[22:48:46] <nick> but i am referencing some time ago, when they had only just begun to roll it out seriously, so i am assuming it's expanded quite a lot in since then
[22:49:46] <takyon> early in Google Fiber's existence, it was just Kansas City. Then Provo, Utah. Later Austin, TX.
[22:49:56] <takyon> so what you are talking about is Kansas City and/or Utah
[22:50:26] <takyon> 2.75 million people live in the Kansas City area
[22:50:33] <nick> Kansas City was the reference point i had
[22:51:07] <nick> i dont know the demographics of the area, but it was just something i noticed on the maps, anywhere which looked densely populated according to the road layouts, wasn't covered at the time
[22:51:09] <takyon> I think they also branched out to neighboring counties after the initial rollout. like an octopus
[22:51:36] <nick> that would make sense
[22:51:47] <takyon> well they based it on how many people signed up to show support in advance
[22:51:57] <takyon> they divided the area into arbitrary "fiberhoods"
[22:52:04] <nick> excuse me for being skeptical of ISP's and google, it's kind of a reflex action
[22:52:14] <takyon> they caught a little flak for that because the poor neighborhoods signed up far less
[22:52:15] <Cyprus> there's drugs to help that
[22:52:45] <nick> koolaid?
[22:52:51] <Cyprus> or aparently you can become a republican candidate =)
[22:53:21] <Cyprus> heh its funny, as a kid i thought koolaid was awesome.
[22:53:33] <Cyprus> lovely lovely sugar water
[22:53:36] <takyon> ants like sugar water too
[22:53:51] <takyon> I started typing that comment before you made yours
[22:53:56] <nick> i do like koolaid, but i never actually had it until i was like 20, as it's not available in the UK
[22:54:07] <takyon> >drinking koolaid
[22:54:11] <nick> same as mtn dew
[22:54:23] <nick> and they do claim to sell mtndew here now, but it's not the real thing.
[22:54:25] <nick> fucking liars.
[22:54:39] <Cyprus> in their defense, mtdew is pretty disgusting
[22:54:50] <Cyprus> they may have gotten it confused with sludge from the bottling plantr
[22:54:53] <Cyprus> *plant
[22:55:13] <nick> i assume it's because whatever they put in it in the US, they're not allowed to in the UK/EU
[22:55:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> the HFCS?
[22:55:42] <nick> although i can buy 'real' mtn dew from a local asian supermarket, but it comes via singapore
[22:55:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> it was better when it was real sugar anyways.
[22:55:55] <Cyprus> heh, which is funny
[22:56:10] <nick> strangely, doesnt cost anymore than the stuff they make here.
[22:56:16] <Cyprus> because i try to find glass bottle sodas imported from mexico because they have actual sugar
[22:56:33] <takyon> make your own soda
[22:56:34] <nick> now you got me craving foreign fanta
[22:57:00] <takyon> all you need is an empty two liter bottle, yeast, sugar, some flavoring like root beer extract or shredded ginger, water
[22:57:14] <takyon> maybe a little lemon juice
[22:57:30] <Cyprus> i just gave up and stopped drinking that stuff
[22:57:40] <nick> Cyprus, that is the best thing to do
[22:58:04] <takyon> just drink healthy drinks
[22:58:05] <takyon> like beer
[22:58:06] <Cyprus> i get weird enough looks not being skinny and outdoorsy here
[22:58:21] <takyon> cyprus I'm fat shaming you
[22:58:30] * Cyprus glares at takyon
[23:00:33] <takyon> http://www.npr.org
[23:00:38] <exec> └─ 13Pentagon Weighs Allowing Transgender People To Serve Openly In Military : The Two-Way : NPR
[23:00:43] <takyon> http://www.npr.org
[23:00:46] <exec> └─ 13Caviar + Mango: Chef Watson Wants You To Cook Outside The Comfort Zone : The Salt : NPR
[23:01:34] <nick> how how to make those two stories into one interesting summary...
[23:01:38] <nick> now*
[23:03:15] <takyon> IBM's Watson Wants You To Openly Serve Transgendered People in the Military
[23:07:33] Bytram|afk is now known as Bytram
[23:08:21] <Bytram> To Serve People - Put them on the Barbie
[23:10:15] cmn32480_travelin is now known as cmn32480
[23:14:35] <takyon> http://www.bbc.com
[23:14:40] <exec> └─ 13Pope Francis 'did not chew coca in Bolivia' - BBC News
[23:15:22] <takyon> http://www.hpcwire.com
[23:15:25] <exec> └─ 13HP, Intel Partner to Expand HPC Into the Enterprise
[23:16:27] <takyon> http://www.kurzweilai.net
[23:16:31] <exec> └─ 13Gene therapy restores hearing in deaf mice | KurzweilAI
[23:17:01] <takyon> http://nextbigfuture.com
[23:17:04] <exec> └─ 13Next Big Future: Now we know Pluto has a diameter of 2370 kilometers and images comparing Pluto and moons to Earth
[23:30:29] <takyon> is USA Today a paywalled source?
[23:31:09] <takyon> nope
[23:32:00] <Bytram> !uid
[23:32:00] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 5670, owned by brunofontour
[23:32:15] <Bytram> fontosaurus
[23:32:19] <Bytram> coffee++
[23:32:19] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1507
[23:32:24] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[23:32:26] <exec> 03Boston, MA, USA - currently 71°F, cloudy, wind NE at 8 mph, humidity 79% - Monday partly cloudy (64°F-74°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (67°F-80°F), Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (63°F-80°F), Thursday mostly sunny (60°F-74°F)
[23:32:29] <Bytram> ~weather portland, me
[23:32:30] <exec> 03Portland, ME, USA - currently 69°F, mostly cloudy, wind S at 5 mph, humidity 68% - Monday clear with periodic clouds (59°F-77°F), Tuesday mostly sunny (63°F-77°F), Wednesday showers (57°F-78°F), Thursday sunny (57°F-79°F)
[23:32:33] <Bytram> ~weather presque isle
[23:32:36] <exec> 03Presque Isle, ME, USA - currently 77°F, sunny, wind SE at 6 mph, humidity 42% - Monday clear (57°F-78°F), Tuesday sunny (61°F-85°F), Wednesday showers (48°F-66°F), Thursday sunny (48°F-72°F)
[23:32:36] <Bytram> ~weather mcmurdo
[23:32:39] <Bytram> ~weather rihad
[23:32:39] <exec> 03McMurdo, Antarctica - currently -19°F, mostly cloudy, wind NW at 4 mph, humidity 70% - Tuesday mostly cloudy (-10°F--7°F), Wednesday mostly cloudy (-13°F--1°F), Thursday partly cloudy (-3°F--1°F), Friday cloudy (-12°F--1°F)
[23:32:41] <exec> 03Riyadh Saudi Arabia - currently 90°F, clear, wind W at 7 mph, humidity 11% - Monday partly cloudy (85°F-112°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (85°F-113°F), Wednesday sunny (86°F-114°F), Thursday sunny (85°F-115°F)
[23:32:45] <Bytram> ~weather kandahar
[23:32:47] <exec> 03Kandahar, Afghanistan - currently 79°F, clear, wind SE at 7 mph, humidity 25% - Tuesday sunny (75°F-110°F), Wednesday sunny (74°F-107°F), Thursday sunny (77°F-108°F), Friday sunny (79°F-110°F)
[23:32:53] <paulej72> ~weather armpit
[23:32:55] <exec> 03Camden, NJ, USA - currently 82°F / 28°C, partly cloudy, wind S at 10 mph, humidity 48% - Monday partly cloudy (70°F-88°F / 21°C-31°C), Tuesday scattered thunderstorms (72°F-85°F / 22°C-29°C), Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (66°F-86°F / 19°C-30°C), Thursday partly cloudy (63°F-83°F / 17°C-28°C)
[23:33:15] <paulej72> ~weather
[23:33:18] <exec> 03Princeton, NJ, USA - currently 81°F / 27°C, partly cloudy, wind S at 12 mph, humidity 48% - Monday clear with periodic clouds (65°F-87°F / 18°C-31°C), Tuesday scattered thunderstorms (68°F-84°F / 20°C-29°C), Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (62°F-85°F / 17°C-29°C), Thursday partly cloudy (60°F-82°F / 16°C-28°C)
[23:33:51] <cmn32480> ~weather jacksonwille, FL
[23:33:54] <exec> 03Jacksonville, FL, USA - currently 88°F / 31°C, mostly cloudy, wind SW at 10 mph, humidity 50% - Monday partly cloudy (75°F-95°F / 24°C-35°C), Tuesday partly cloudy (77°F-94°F / 25°C-34°C), Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (77°F-94°F / 25°C-34°C), Thursday scattered thunderstorms (75°F-91°F / 24°C-33°C)
[23:35:51] -!- BadCoderFinger [BadCoderFinger!~BadCoderF@216.160.gyz.km] has joined #Soylent
[23:36:45] <BadCoderFinger> Hi guys
[23:37:30] <cmn32480> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:37:37] <cmn32480> oh... never mind
[23:37:44] <cmn32480> it's just badcoderfinger
[23:38:46] <cmn32480> heya BadCoderFinger, how's life trating you
[23:40:19] <BadCoderFinger> Hey cmn32480. Had no net for a while, but back online!
[23:41:35] <BadCoderFinger> How are you, still travelling?
[23:42:37] -!- K_benzoate1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[23:44:08] <cmn32480> always
[23:44:12] <cmn32480> <sigh>
[23:44:38] <cmn32480> today I am in lovely Jacksonville, FL, where the outside temperature was just about high enough to melt the road surface
[23:45:15] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, Florida is not much fun in the summer. Decent winters, though.
[23:46:34] <cmn32480> yeah... one lady at the site said "Summer is the price we pay for not having winter"
[23:46:49] <Bytram> !weather jacksonville
[23:46:57] <Bytram> ~weather jacksonville
[23:46:58] <BadCoderFinger> Hey Bytram!
[23:47:00] <exec> 03Jacksonville, FL, USA - currently 87°F, mostly cloudy, wind SW at 11 mph, humidity 54% - Monday partly cloudy (75°F-95°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (77°F-94°F), Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (77°F-94°F), Thursday scattered thunderstorms (75°F-91°F)
[23:47:24] * Bytram is glad those T-storms are scattered instead of concentrated!
[23:47:28] <Bytram> BadCoderFinger: hola!
[23:47:38] <BadCoderFinger> How are you?
[23:47:52] <cmn32480> me too!
[23:48:04] <cmn32480> but it makes for interesting times in the warehouse when the lights go out
[23:48:11] <Bytram> actually, pretty tired
[23:48:27] <Bytram> summer has kind of just appeared around my neck of the woods and it's wiping me out
[23:48:42] <BadCoderFinger> Heh, yeah, if you live under threat of a hurricane every year, you don't put a huge amount into your infrastructure.
[23:49:22] <cmn32480> not my site... belogns to the customer... not my issue. I get paid if the lights are on or off!
[23:49:37] <Bytram> well, there is the alternative view to make it tough as can be and then you can just ignore any storm that comes along
[23:49:50] <BadCoderFinger> The contractor's motto: "I could tell you, but then I'd have to bill you."
[23:49:52] <Bytram> solong as it is at a high enough elevation to not get flooded out
[23:49:57] * cmn32480 wonders if that blonde wants to go check out the mezzanine while the lights are out
[23:50:00] <Bytram> and not so high as to be a lighting rod
[23:50:22] <cmn32480> I get paid as long as I am onsite
[23:50:31] <cmn32480> flood... lights.... whatever
[23:50:46] <Bytram> bah! bad pun!!!!!
[23:50:53] <cmn32480> but the site in New Orleans that I will be at on Friday IS in the flood zone from Katrina
[23:50:54] <Bytram> light humor
[23:50:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Caspar Bowden, European Privacy Advocate, Dies at 53 - http://sylnt.us - rest-in-privacy
[23:51:10] <Bytram> the friendly ghost
[23:51:34] <Bytram> how old was the Nintendo(?) exec who just passed?
[23:51:42] <Bytram> wasn't he 53, also?
[23:51:45] <cmn32480> 53, I thikn
[23:52:00] <Bytram> not a good age to be a leader, it seems
[23:52:14] * Bytram thinks he'll stick to the trenches for a while longer
[23:52:45] <cmn32480> make sure you use an excavator to dig them. digging trenches w/ a shovel sucks!
[23:53:30] <nick> nintendo guy was 55 i think?
[23:53:43] <Bytram> and call 'dig safe' (or the local equivalent) before starting else hit the gas line and KaBoom!!
[23:53:53] <Bytram> yup, 55
[23:54:00] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[23:54:04] <exec> └─ 13Satoru Iwata, President & CEO of Nintendo, Dies at Age 55 - SoylentNews
[23:54:20] <cmn32480> had to still be on the front page... search wouldn't have found it
[23:54:38] <Bytram> yup, that's where I found it
[23:54:49] <cmn32480> figured
[23:55:08] <cmn32480> truth is that search guarantees we'lll never have dupes
[23:55:21] <Bytram> that reminds me, when SN first launched, I took pains to go to the internet archive and try to access several pages on the main site for posterity's sake
[23:55:28] <Bytram> I wonder how well that worked out?
[23:55:41] <Bytram> 2014-02-12(?)
[23:55:49] <cmn32480> somethign liek that
[23:56:04] <Bytram> http://soylentnews.org
[23:56:09] <exec> └─ 13Welcome to SoylentNews! - SoylentNews - 03https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/02/12/0715245
[23:56:19] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[23:56:23] <exec> └─ 13Welcome to SoylentNews! - SoylentNews
[23:56:27] <Bytram> bah!
[23:56:55] <Bytram> oh! DOH!!! that WAS the title of the article! =)
[23:59:12] <Bytram> here's another one... http://soylentnews.org
[23:59:13] <cmn32480> interesting... we had our first 2800 users inside the first 2 weeks...
[23:59:18] <exec> └─ 13Welcome to the World of Tomorrow... Today! - SoylentNews - 03https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/02/17/0148235
[23:59:41] <Bytram> mind the date stamps... I think it took is a while to decide to lock stories after 30(?) days.
[23:59:49] <Bytram> s/ is/ us/
[23:59:49] <sedctl> <Bytram> mind the date stamps... I think it took us a while to decide to lock stories after 30(?) days.
[23:59:59] <BadCoderFinger> Heh.