#Soylent | Logs for 2016-08-30

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[00:00:00] <takyon_> the jig is up
[00:08:32] <Tramtrist> hah
[00:08:44] <_muxer_> i actually thought he was older than 83
[00:08:48] _muxer_ is now known as muxer
[00:12:03] <muxer> i guess this is my turn to start seeing all the stars you grew up dying
[00:17:45] <takyon_> irc nooooooooooooooooo
[00:17:56] <takyon_> .op
[00:17:56] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o takyon_] by Aphrodite
[00:18:04] -!- takyon_ was kicked from #Soylent by takyon_!~422c73bf@Soylent/Staff/Editor/takyon [takyon_]
[00:19:38] <muxer> Deucalion, for how long approximately?
[00:20:18] <Deucalion> muxer, was it not in the Global notice you got? 10 minutes ish provided I don't eff up
[00:21:10] <muxer> apparently my reading comprehension is a bit low
[00:21:27] <SirFinkus> oh shit, my client didn't even show that to me
[00:23:39] <Deucalion> SirFinkus, you should have got a /NOTICE from Global :/
[00:23:52] <Deucalion> might be on the Server channel at the top of the list perhaps?
[00:24:02] <SirFinkus> I did, but my client apparently doesn't list those notifications
[00:24:11] <SirFinkus> and I never look at the server channel
[00:24:21] <cmn32480> ~gday #soylent
[00:24:23] * exec half-heartedly reticulates a tower of dollars for #soylent
[00:24:34] <cmn32480> make it rain bitches!
[00:24:35] <SirFinkus> why am I op'd?
[00:24:37] <SirFinkus> .deop
[00:24:37] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o SirFinkus] by Aphrodite
[00:24:51] * Deucalion goes for one last puff of nicotine before the fun begins :D
[00:25:04] * chromas demands abuse
[00:25:12] <cmn32480> what kind of abuse?
[00:25:21] <chromas> op abuse
[00:25:22] <cmn32480> physical?
[00:25:24] <cmn32480> mental?
[00:25:30] <SirFinkus> sexy abuse
[00:25:38] <cmn32480> little of both with a dash of ice cream?
[00:25:41] <SirFinkus> .op
[00:25:41] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o SirFinkus] by Aphrodite
[00:25:46] -!- chromas was kicked from #Soylent by SirFinkus!~SirFinkus@Soylent/Staff/Community/SirFinkus [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
[00:25:51] -!- chromas [chromas!~chromas@0::1] has joined #Soylent
[00:25:52] <SirFinkus> .deop
[00:25:52] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o SirFinkus] by Aphrodite
[00:25:53] <chromas> :D
[00:26:14] <SirFinkus> glad I could make you happy chromas
[00:26:26] <cmn32480> SirFinkus - you don't have to .op to do that
[00:26:36] <cmn32480> you can jsut do a .kick
[00:26:39] <cmn32480> see?
[00:26:40] <SirFinkus> ahh
[00:26:47] <SirFinkus> .kick chromas
[00:26:47] -!- chromas was kicked from #Soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(SirFinkus) No reason given]
[00:26:51] <cmn32480> .kick chromas for being a dickbag
[00:26:51] -!- chromas [chromas!~chromas@0::1] has joined #Soylent
[00:27:00] <cmn32480> .kick chromas for being a dickbag
[00:27:00] -!- chromas was kicked from #Soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(cmn32480) for being a dickbag]
[00:27:03] <cmn32480> see?
[00:27:04] -!- chromas [chromas!~chromas@0::1] has joined #Soylent
[00:27:07] <SirFinkus> this is fun
[00:27:17] <cmn32480> just don't let the boss see it
[00:27:31] * chromas need auto-rejoin
[00:27:32] <cmn32480> he gets persnickity about such things
[00:27:52] <SirFinkus> which makes it all the more exciting
[00:28:04] <cmn32480> chromas - sounds like a personal problem
[00:28:05] <Deucalion> children!
[00:28:17] <SirFinkus> it's not my fault
[00:28:25] <SirFinkus> ever since ciri left, I've had no outlet for my irc agression
[00:28:56] * cmn32480 misses spallshurgenson
[00:29:12] <cmn32480> Sorry Deucalion
[00:29:20] * cmn32480 looks at his shooes and toes a dirt clod
[00:29:21] <SirFinkus> I miss the innocence of youth
[00:29:38] <SirFinkus> back when I thought I could be an astronaut
[00:29:50] <cmn32480> or the first black president
[00:29:50] <SirFinkus> and go to the moon
[00:30:14] <cmn32480> WOOT WOOT WOOTO!!!!
[00:30:17] <SirFinkus> in my case, I'd have to be the first blackface president
[00:30:20] <cmn32480> Danger will ronbinson danger danger
[00:30:35] <SirFinkus> but I might have trouble getting the black vote on that platform
[00:30:41] <cmn32480> IN the name of the father, and the son, and the holy ghost....
[00:30:45] <SirFinkus> I'll have to do some polling
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[00:41:55] <cmn32480> of their women?
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[00:44:26] <SirFinkus> hey, was irc down for anybody else?
[00:44:33] <cmn32480> nah just you
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[00:44:41] <cmn32480> didn't anybody tell you?
[00:44:50] <cmn32480> it was like an intervention.
[00:44:55] <cmn32480> we spend too much time here...
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[00:45:32] <cmn32480> if juggs is done breaking shit... I'll get exec back online
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[00:57:10] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v TheMightyBuzzard] by Aphrodite
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[00:57:14] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v takyon] by Aphrodite
[00:57:24] juggs is now known as Deucalion
[00:57:58] <cmn32480> Deucalion++
[00:57:58] <Bender> karma - deucalion: 15
[00:58:04] <cmn32480> juggs++
[00:58:04] <Bender> karma - juggs: 82
[00:58:10] -!- SirFinkus [SirFinkus!~SirFinkus@Soylent/Staff/Community/SirFinkus] has joined #Soylent
[00:58:10] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v SirFinkus] by Aphrodite
[00:58:10] <cmn32480> much betterer
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[01:00:10] <Deucalion> sheesh.. that took longerer than expected - sorry folks. One typo and some stupidly long lines I didn't notice had truncated on copy
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[01:01:15] <cmn32480> Deucalion - it all came back up... in my book that is a good upgrade!
[01:01:34] <Deucalion> sshh don;t damn it yet cmn32480 - still chekin shit
[01:01:47] * cmn32480 hands a roll of TP over
[01:02:10] xlefay is now known as Guest49267
[01:02:12] <Deucalion> This was the main point * irc.sylnt.us charybdis-3.5.2
[01:03:08] <Deucalion> Bouncing Iris too
[01:03:08] * cmn32480 takes your word for it
[01:04:23] <Deucalion> .op
[01:04:23] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o Deucalion] by Aphrodite
[01:04:28] <Deucalion> .deop
[01:04:28] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o Deucalion] by Aphrodite
[01:07:31] -!- SoyCow3183 [SoyCow3183!~027c5a52@2.124.wm.si] has joined #Soylent
[01:07:50] -!- MrPlow [MrPlow!MrPlow@nsa.gov] has joined #Soylent
[01:08:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake MrPlow
[01:08:13] * MrPlow smakes MrPlow upside the head with 🖕
[01:08:33] * Deucalion does not know what all those "GuestNNNN" are - suspect they are people without auto re-auth on
[01:08:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> bot, you needa learn to auto-reconnect
[01:09:09] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, he is here... so reconnected OK. May have had a brain fart on having the ircd ripped out from under him though :D
[01:09:16] -!- mecctro [mecctro!~Thunderbi@vnh-521-051-94-94.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[01:09:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, ya, i just hadda restart him. didn't code any reconnect functionality into him.
[01:09:53] <cmn32480> exec don't ahve it either
[01:09:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> process dies when he disconnects
[01:10:01] * Deucalion yawns
[01:10:01] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into Deucalion's gaping mouth
[01:10:06] <Deucalion> snippy
[01:10:15] <SoyCow3183> Wayyy!
[01:10:20] <cmn32480> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[01:10:22] * exec cromulently crams a stocking of HP into TheMightyBuzzard
[01:10:27] <Deucalion> ~gday all
[01:10:29] * exec carefully blows a +1 mace of dust at all
[01:10:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday cmn32480
[01:10:40] * exec implicitly pisses a uharc archive of superballs on cmn32480
[01:10:56] <cmn32480> i won
[01:11:08] <Deucalion> One small side effect of that up'g should be that connecting is a little quicker (for those that even disconnect at all).
[01:11:36] * Deucalion goes for nicotine supplement before log check and tidy up
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[01:17:33] <Deucalion> Odd the topics didn't get destroyed that time :/
[01:18:27] <cmn32480> count your blessings?
[01:20:06] <Deucalion> aye - I made a note of some of them anyway before hand :)
[01:20:18] <cmn32480> that's why they din't die
[01:20:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, prepare for something and it won't bother to happen
[01:20:47] * cmn32480 should really go to bed
[01:21:01] * cmn32480 has been going since 4am on 3 hours sorta sleep
[01:21:09] <Deucalion> yuk
[01:21:14] <cmn32480> had to stop after I hit I81 and nap for an hour this morn ing
[01:21:24] <cmn32480> on the drive down
[01:21:41] <Deucalion> any #irpg regulars can comment whether that survived OK or no? I have no idea how that shizzle is supposed to work
[01:21:56] <cmn32480> seems fine
[01:21:59] <cmn32480> I logged in ok
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[01:22:22] * TheMightyBuzzard waves at NCommander
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[01:23:06] * NCommander is very tired
[01:23:46] <cmn32480> Ncommader - welcome to the club! we meet every other Thursday, and next week is your week to bring pillows
[01:24:23] * SoyCow3183 wimpers and leaves
[01:24:27] -!- SoyCow3183 [SoyCow3183!~027c5a52@2.124.wm.si] has parted #Soylent
[01:24:56] * NCommander needs food
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[01:25:52] <cmn32480> ~gday chromas
[01:25:53] * exec ironically cracks open a shot of cheese for chromas
[01:27:06] <chromas> ~g'day cmn32480
[01:27:08] * exec insatiably fires a byte of nasty v at cmn32480
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[01:30:31] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, is that you dropping a /home/sylnt/etc/ dir with rssbot.conf in it? There's a ~/irc-bots/ dir for a reason :P
[01:31:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> so you're saying blue valkyrie needs food, badly?
[01:32:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, i always put my config files for shat i write in ~/etc/. just habit.
[01:32:28] <Runaway1956> coffee++
[01:32:28] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2832
[01:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> but that bot's trash since we can't really replace bender
[01:33:00] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, you messy bastard
[01:33:02] <Deucalion> :P
[01:33:37] <chromas> Bender's twit credentials aren't hidden in a config file somewhere?
[01:33:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> am not. everything in ~/etc/ means it's easy to nuke it all.
[01:34:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, they are but i don't wanna go back into twitter api hell
[01:35:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> last time i wrote something for twitter, they changed the api after like three months and broke it.
[01:35:33] <cmn32480> holy fuckballs I just got quit the chill... teeth chattering and everything
[01:44:40] <cmn32480> #join #editorial
[01:45:24] <Runaway1956> Obama care coverage options disappearing across the country
[01:45:55] <Runaway1956> you got zika or something?
[01:46:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's almost like it's a bad deal for both the people and the insurance companies... unpossible!
[01:46:14] <Runaway1956> http://www.foxnews.com
[01:46:15] <CookiePuss> ^ 03ObamaCare coverage options disappearing across country, report finds | Fox News
[01:47:22] * cmn32480 contains his surprise
[01:47:35] <Runaway1956> That crazy shite makes it less appealing to try changing jobs
[01:47:45] <Runaway1956> you lose what you got, you may not be able to get anything
[01:48:01] <Runaway1956> and millenials? They're fucked no matter what
[01:48:31] <cmn32480> we are all fucked.. unless you are a Baby Boomer
[01:48:46] <cmn32480> they get all the cash.. and the rest of us pay for it
[01:48:58] <Runaway1956> Well, I'm a couple years young to be a boomer, but I think they are getting fucked as well
[01:49:08] <Runaway1956> The lucky ones have already cashed in, then died
[01:49:21] <Runaway1956> they don't have to deal with the afterbirth
[01:50:01] <cmn32480> heh
[01:50:33] <Runaway1956> and, the afterbirth will be a bigger monster than Obama's baby
[01:50:51] <cmn32480> lol
[01:51:34] <Runaway1956> So, what next? Nationalize health insurance, and turn it into genuine single payer?
[01:52:12] <cmn32480> that's what they really want
[01:52:22] <cmn32480> and have since day 1
[01:52:32] <cmn32480> ever listen to Common Sense by Dan Carlin?
[01:52:40] <cmn32480> it's a pod cast
[01:52:51] <Runaway1956> Like communism, if it worked in practice like the theory, it would be great
[01:53:04] <Runaway1956> I've listened to George Carlin
[01:53:21] <cmn32480> https://dancarlin.com
[01:53:22] <CookiePuss> ^ 03Dan Carlin ( http://www.dancarlin.com )
[01:53:29] <cmn32480> really good stuff
[01:53:40] <cmn32480> he's not a democrat, or a republican, or a libertarian..
[01:53:44] <cmn32480> he's a little of all of it
[01:53:54] <cmn32480> and his Hardcore history show is REALLY excellnt
[01:55:16] <cmn32480> if you like it, I have all the old stuff... from like Episode 50 on
[01:55:28] <Runaway1956> tab is open, I'll wait til morning to enable java script . . . . far to late for me to get interested in something
[01:55:48] <cmn32480> understood
[01:55:54] <cmn32480> shoudln't you be leaving for work?
[01:56:10] <cmn32480> the old ones are about 10 years old
[01:56:12] <Runaway1956> I still have like - half hour, 45 minutes
[01:56:15] <cmn32480> ok
[01:56:19] <cmn32480> just making sure
[01:56:27] <cmn32480> somebody gotta keep tabs on you
[01:56:52] * Runaway1956 thinks about something to eat, wonders what kinda leftovers are in the fridge
[01:57:38] <cmn32480> the stuff from yesterday kind
[01:58:23] <Runaway1956> the wife cooks to much Mexican food - I asked her today if it's too hard to make something German now and then, or French, or Indian, or Chinese
[01:58:28] <Runaway1956> or maybe even American
[01:58:52] <cmn32480> lol
[01:59:03] <cmn32480> like my wife making tacos the day I get back from Mexico City?
[01:59:34] <Runaway1956> Yeah. It wouldn't be so bad if she cooked like this old Apache woman I knew - but she has to put fucking peppers in EVERYTHING
[01:59:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> thas a woman with a sense of humor there
[01:59:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> Runaway1956, whiny bitch. peppers make your beer taste better.
[01:59:58] <cmn32480> I was rather unhappy about it
[02:00:22] <Runaway1956> peppers make my asshole burn when I sit on the porcelain throne
[02:00:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> Runaway1956, keeps it from getting complacent
[02:01:35] * NCommander has an interesting article in queue for tomorrow
[02:01:48] <NCommander> complete with x86_16 assembly in it ^_^
[02:02:24] * cmn32480 no hablo ingles
[02:02:26] <Runaway1956> Oooooh, just what I need, a keylogger for DOS
[02:02:40] <Runaway1956> that may be interesting
[02:03:17] * cmn32480 looks at the queue and curses
[02:03:25] <Runaway1956> cipher collissions - we saw that with old Microsoft password salting
[02:03:34] <NCommander> cmn32480, I remember the time we had an editor trainee quit when one my novels went in
[02:03:42] <Runaway1956> just because you "cracked" a password didn't mean you had the actual password
[02:03:44] <NCommander> Runaway1956, well, I'm intentionally making it useless so script kiddies won't use it. DECnet FTW
[02:04:02] <Runaway1956> you simply found a password that "matched" the real password
[02:04:25] <NCommander> (though actually I'm hoping to IPX/SFX though its a little astounding I can't find any developer documentation for it given how common it was on DOS)
[02:04:27] <Runaway1956> I did that once with my son - I found a password that worked, but later, he gave me another password that worked
[02:05:10] <cmn32480> NCommander - I am not particularly surprised by that, but your stuff is generally very well written and doesnt' require much adjustment (a fact for which I am greatful)
[02:06:16] <NCommander> cmn32480, statistically, my novels have gotten shorter over time. It used to break 4k words. There was a rather memorial time I was with mrcoolbp in RL and he told me to write up subscriptions
[02:06:22] <NCommander> 15 minutes later, I had a 3k novel for him
[02:06:52] * cmn32480 laughs
[02:07:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, we got zero stories queued cept nc's
[02:07:30] <cmn32480> woekring on it
[02:07:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> whew
[02:07:36] <NCommander> We could break my article into 500 word segments
[02:07:39] <NCommander> ++
[02:09:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> say, while i got ya around, how ya feel about adding us a few nexuses this next upgrady time?
[02:09:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think i know how to do it but i'm not certain
[02:10:28] * TheMightyBuzzard skips out for a smoke
[02:10:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[02:10:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[02:10:36] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 128
[02:11:33] -!- muxer [muxer!~muxing@mumo-23-066-652-508.hstntx.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:11:41] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ugh, every time we've tried to add a topic to the site, we brick the stupid thing
[02:12:09] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'm not against doing it, but we should make sure we have the SQL written out before hand so we can do it in a single go without website breaking voodoo
[02:18:05] <Deucalion> IPX/SPX was proprietary Novell wasn't it NCommander?
[02:18:22] <cmn32480> yes
[02:18:37] <cmn32480> but was ported to other OS's when Novell stgarted going tits up
[02:20:48] <Deucalion> I kinda remember configuring NetBEUI over IPX/SPX on DOS systems (NE2000 net adapters) way back when... but it's all hazy now. Kinda around the time when thin coax was phasing out, Cat5 and IP was becoming all the rage.
[02:21:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, I added a Bewbs nexus to dev pretty easily. I think we can manage to not break it this go-round.
[02:22:12] <NCommander> Deucalion, it was Novell, but it was copied pretty far and wide. Linux has/(had?) IPX support since 2.1
[02:22:51] <NCommander> Deucalion, honestly, if I had the necessary licenses (or a valid MSDN subscription), I'd dig up OS/2 Server or NT 3.1 and use it as a command and control server for the keylogger
[02:23:03] <NCommander> I forgot to download the old NT stuff before my last subscription expired
[02:23:06] * cmn32480 is in awe that there was stuff before Cat5
[02:23:35] <NCommander> cmn32480, someone never had to deal with 10BASE-2
[02:23:39] <Runaway1956> fukushima - what did they expect a cleanup to cost? couple million dollars? Phhhtttt
[02:24:00] <NCommander> cmn32480, honestly, token ring only failed in the market because of licensing costs. It should have eaten Ethernet's lunch
[02:24:07] <cmn32480> NCommander - never thinnet.. but I did deal with a metric shitton on TwinAx
[02:24:26] <NCommander> cmn32480, I actually never dealt with ethernet except over cat5, but I have dealt with token ring
[02:24:31] <NCommander> Never seen ARCNet in the wild
[02:24:34] <Deucalion> NCommander, ~shrug~ only remember having to deal with netware stuff back in the 90s. I rather liked its directory services stuff in a way at the time.
[02:24:59] <Deucalion> I had to deal with some token ring networks back then too, but they were few and far between.
[02:25:02] <NCommander> Deucalion, SN's directory service stuff more resembles Novell because I didn't fall into the trap of reimplementing AD badly
[02:25:13] <Deucalion> :D
[02:25:25] <NCommander> Deucalion, token ring tends to stay in past its best-buy date since it usually is connected to set-it/forget-it servers
[02:26:09] <cmn32480> I haven't seen a token ring install in 15 years(?)
[02:26:27] <Runaway1956> "Please don't eat this dogfood after november 2180 as it could make you sick"
[02:26:46] <cmn32480> but we do have one customer that still runs twinax...
[02:26:50] * cmn32480 hates it when they call
[02:26:59] <NCommander> On paper, token ring is actually a fair bit saner than Ethertalk. It wasn't until Ethernet switches became the standard that ethernet stopped sucking
[02:27:13] <Deucalion> NCommander, it was mostly dead in the water when I dealt with it then. Mostly because of the ludicrous pricing for adapters and in fact anything to do with it. No idea if it was "superior" - businesses just seemed to be fleeing from it when I first came across it,
[02:27:23] <cmn32480> agreed. Hubs were the devil... but great for packet capture
[02:27:27] Guest59046 is now known as Tramtrist
[02:27:44] <NCommander> Deucalion, its an IBM product. It would work until the sun goes out (aka 2013)
[02:27:45] * Runaway1956 still has an ethernet switch on top of the cabinet that turns his LAN into a one MB network
[02:27:50] * NCommander runs from that pun
[02:28:16] <NCommander> I once plugged gigabyte ethernet stuff into an old hub
[02:28:19] <NCommander> That was fucking exciting
[02:28:27] * cmn32480 suggests that runaway recycle or use it as a boat anchor
[02:28:53] <Runaway1956> LOL - I've recently upgraded to CAT6 and started throwing away some of the original CAT5 cables for that reson
[02:28:58] <cmn32480> NCommander - woudl I be wrong in assuming they did not like each other very much?
[02:28:59] <NCommander> cmn32480, I have to admit I always love dealing with networks with weird crap. I don't think I'd mind your twinax guy
[02:29:18] <Runaway1956> the wife asked why she was only getting kilobyte service to her machine after she pugged in an ancient cable
[02:29:20] <NCommander> cmn32480, I worked with a client that had DECnet traffic on their network but no DEC
[02:29:42] <NCommander> Turns out they retired the DEC stuff years ago, but they did it piecemall. The client stuff was ported to Windows with a DEC stack, then the server got replaced
[02:29:49] <NCommander> So the network protocol outlasted everything else
[02:30:10] * NCommander had seen that with IPX before
[02:30:22] <cmn32480> NCommander - the twinax guy calls like once a year... and it is usually that he has a terminal that shit, or his Perle controller went to crap and ate the floppy disk
[02:30:33] <NCommander> cmn32480, floppy disk?
[02:30:38] <cmn32480> 3.5"
[02:30:46] <NCommander> cmn32480, do I want to know why the network depends on a floppy disk?
[02:30:55] <cmn32480> this guy has a VERY old AS400
[02:31:14] <NCommander> was it a low destiny floppy?
[02:31:15] <cmn32480> it has a twwinax card in it, but he has an external controller for additional dumb terminals.
[02:31:21] * NCommander hasn't seen one of those in 20 years
[02:31:24] <cmn32480> 1.44M
[02:31:28] <NCommander> Lucky
[02:31:35] <NCommander> Suppose its better than an actual floppy floppy
[02:32:01] <cmn32480> we have a box of like 50 disks that are reserved for this guy, brand new.... and I have images of all the original disks
[02:32:32] <cmn32480> it's crazy... but IBM wants like a gazillion dollars to upgrade his system... and the software is discontinued w/o support
[02:32:34] <NCommander> cmn32480, if its eating them about once a year, suspect the drive is going faulty. Guessing its using some propertiary IBM shit
[02:32:35] <cmn32480> it's awesome
[02:32:43] <NCommander> cmn32480, fuck, I want to work for your company
[02:32:50] <NCommander> I lvoe those kinds of jobs
[02:32:56] <cmn32480> nope standard floppy drive...
[02:33:04] <cmn32480> we keep a few on hand for him
[02:33:06] <NCommander> cmn32480, might be worth replacing the drive next time you're there
[02:33:22] <cmn32480> we did it a couple months ago...
[02:33:23] <NCommander> cmn32480, or replacing it with a USB-floppy emulator
[02:33:33] <cmn32480> that doens't exist for the controller
[02:33:45] <cmn32480> pre-USB
[02:34:04] <NCommander> cmn32480, no, those plug into the standard floppy connector, and a USB port on the other end
[02:34:15] <cmn32480> interesting...
[02:34:15] <NCommander> The emulator reads a 1.44 MiB file and serves it up as an actual floppy
[02:34:25] * cmn32480 will have to lok inot it
[02:34:52] <cmn32480> we are hoping to get this guy to upgrade to PC's from his dumb terminals this year...
[02:35:00] <cmn32480> so far his testing is going well....
[02:35:09] <cmn32480> 'cuz you know.. .the PC is SUCH a new device
[02:35:20] <NCommander> cmn32480, enjoying the vt220 madness?
[02:35:29] <cmn32480> not VT220
[02:35:32] <NCommander> Ouch
[02:35:32] <cmn32480> 5250
[02:35:36] <NCommander> *wince*
[02:35:40] <NCommander> Sucks to be you?
[02:35:44] <cmn32480> IBM AS400
[02:35:44] <NCommander> cmn32480, i actually had a WYSE serial terminal for awhile. Handy when dealing with embedded hardware
[02:35:51] <cmn32480> yes
[02:36:00] <NCommander> cmn32480, yeah, but you might have had 3270 which at least is better supported by emulators
[02:36:16] <cmn32480> I still remember a VERY little as400... .but we don't deal wiht that end
[02:36:22] <Deucalion> I've been looking for something you can plug into an old floppy header on a board and a USB stick the other and have it present the USB stick as a floppy to the board. My searches always come up with stuff that is vice versa.
[02:36:26] <NCommander> I never had the opportunity
[02:36:48] <NCommander> Deucalion, https://www.amazon.com - no personal experience with it but at $20, not too bad if it don't work
[02:36:48] <cmn32480> IBM wants to get out of the hardware game and move it all to the cloud
[02:36:51] <CookiePuss> ^ 03Amazon.com: Generic SFR1M44-U USB Floppy Drive Emulator for Industrial Control Equipment: Computers Accessories
[02:37:00] <NCommander> cmn32480, I miss when thinkpads didn't suck
[02:37:17] <NCommander> I had three lenovos in a row die within a year. My very old ThinkPad 330 still runs
[02:37:18] <cmn32480> the good old days....
[02:37:29] <NCommander> OS/2 2.11 on that fucker
[02:37:32] <NCommander> From 29 floppies
[02:37:36] <NCommander> Ugh
[02:37:41] <NCommander> so. much. disk. changing
[02:38:10] * NCommander notes its theorically possible to create Windows 98 floppies. 68 in total if I remember correctly
[02:38:35] <cmn32480> yes it is
[02:38:43] <cmn32480> why you'ld wnat to, I have no idea
[02:38:55] <cmn32480> but it is possible, if I recall correctly
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[02:39:21] <NCommander> cmn32480, the official Microsoft Windows 98 for floppes was 38 disks
[02:39:22] <Testes> 123
[02:39:28] <NCommander> But the CD had extra stuff on it
[02:39:37] <Deucalion> neat. Number of times I go to a job and the floppy drive is either dead, full of dust bunnies, the floppies held on site have errors etc. I have the ISOs for the floppies so this may work - although some of this stuff is old IBM tills so who knows what format they expect :D
[02:39:42] -!- Testes has quit [Client Quit]
[02:39:59] <NCommander> Deucalion, sometimes you can resurrect the drives by replacing caps
[02:40:03] <cmn32480> Deucalion - keep a USB flooppy in your kit
[02:40:07] <NCommander> Seriously, leaky caps are the devil
[02:40:31] <NCommander> They're about the only thing that will kill older IBM hardware
[02:40:52] * Runaway1956 just bid on a bucket of leaky caps on Ebay
[02:41:09] * Runaway1956 plans to remove good caps and put the leakers on machines at work
[02:41:21] * cmn32480 notes that some nimnob just bid on my bucket of leaky caps on ebay
[02:41:28] <Deucalion> Easier just to partition a USB stick to 1.44MB, blast an image to it then plug it into the floppy header with a doodad than piss about re-capping ancient floppy drives methinks
[02:41:37] <Runaway1956> ROFLMAO
[02:42:33] <NCommander> Deucalion, you have it good if it takes 1.44 standard disks
[02:43:01] <NCommander> .oO(fuck mac floppy disks)
[02:44:06] <Deucalion> NCommander, any stuff that needs re-capping gets swapped out as a whole device. Re-capping done in the refurb / spares process. Retail clients go all manner of ape-shit when you start wielding a soldering iron in front of clients. Tried it once... they all thought they were going to die of lead poisoning :D
[02:44:48] <NCommander> Deucalion, I've never recapped anything for a customer. I've done it for a few home stuff but that's about it
[02:44:52] <Runaway1956> ROFLMAO again - just tell them you pay extra for lead free solder
[02:45:13] <Runaway1956> and that they'll see the difference in your bill
[02:45:33] * NCommander notes you can actually still get lead solder if you're determined
[02:45:41] <Runaway1956> lead free solder costs about two dollars per ounce more than gold
[02:45:51] <NCommander> A few industries actually still mandate the use of it because they can't deal with tin whiskers
[02:46:11] <Deucalion> Ehh.... it's just tin and a little silver.... oh well... in that case then it's a health and safety issue - need a special permit for "hot works".... ehh.... it's a battery powered soldering iron.... you know what... OK, I'll just swap it and lay on the charges instead of fix it on site. Makes no odds to me :D
[02:46:15] <NCommander> Deucalion, http://www.os2museum.com - if I had a way to run it legally, I'd probably use this as the keyloggers CNC
[02:46:16] <CookiePuss> ^ 03OS/2 16-bit Server | OS/2 Museum
[02:46:18] <cmn32480> Runaway1956 - you mean LEAD solder, not lead free, cprrect?
[02:46:19] <Runaway1956> The stuff I use is labeled "low lead", if that makes any sense
[02:46:21] <NCommander> Deucalion, just to drive up the irony factor
[02:46:38] * TheMightyBuzzard wants real fucking LEAD solder. the environment can suck it.
[02:46:52] <cmn32480> long as you don't b reath in the fumes... you are good
[02:46:56] <Runaway1956> cmn32480 - you can tell the customer anything - most of them don't have a clue
[02:47:06] <cmn32480> true
[02:48:03] <NCommander> I've had customers where I honestly wonder how the fuck they stay in busienss
[02:48:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> pffft, you'd have to solder a lot more than i do to worry about fumes.
[02:48:14] <mecctro> os2 is not my cup of tea
[02:48:17] <Runaway1956> Mickey Mouse says it's 21:43 o'clock - later all
[02:48:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[02:48:26] <mecctro> got an e-machine chilling here with os400 though
[02:48:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> or rather happy working
[02:48:34] <cmn32480> oh dear god... I thought _I_ was a young 'un!
[02:48:37] <mecctro> RPG isn't fun for me either
[02:48:41] <cmn32480> NCommander just rolled out of the crib
[02:48:59] <mecctro> how old are you cmn?
[02:49:04] <cmn32480> 36
[02:49:11] <mecctro> lol
[02:49:27] <NCommander> How old do you think I am?
[02:49:46] <cmn32480> From the article that will hit the front page tomorrrow at 8:14am Eastern:
[02:49:49] <NCommander> cmn32480, oh, I posted my age in the article
[02:49:50] <cmn32480> "For example, in 1988 (the year I was born)"
[02:49:50] <NCommander> That's right
[02:49:53] <NCommander> ^_^
[02:50:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya buncha puppies
[02:50:02] <NCommander> Yes, I postdate some of the technology I'm talking about
[02:50:31] * cmn32480 goes to get his walker and geritol....
[02:50:32] <NCommander> I actually used DOS a lot, but DOS 5 was the oldest I used in the "wild"
[02:51:28] <NCommander> It's a pity Microsoft's MSDN collection of early windows and DOS sucks
[02:51:35] <NCommander> The oldest they have is NT 3.1 and Win 3.1
[02:51:52] <NCommander> And that's mostly ebcause the later was supported until 2004 for embedded usage
[02:52:00] <NCommander> And I *still* see Windows 3.1 in the wild occassionally
[02:52:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i got a couple sets of Win 3.1 floppies somewhere...
[02:52:02] <NCommander> Shit won't die
[02:52:10] <mecctro> I used to work at a place that still ran os400, which is why I had the server sitting here.
[02:52:22] <NCommander> That being said, Win16/386 is actually not bad to program for
[02:52:30] <NCommander> Flat memory model and sanity for the most part
[02:52:42] <mecctro> As well as some ancient aix / os variants
[02:52:45] * cmn32480 sees no gramatical issues with the aforementioned post
[02:52:59] <cmn32480> and on that note... I been up since 4am
[02:53:07] <mecctro> haha
[02:53:08] <NCommander> I could deal with the 80286's quirky protected mode because it actually did shit right
[02:53:09] <cmn32480> time for me to get some shutwye
[02:53:22] <NCommander> the 80286 had working NX protection due to segments
[02:53:25] <cmn32480> ~nelson mecctro
[02:53:26] <exec> 03mecctro: HA! HA!
[02:53:59] <cmn32480> ~gnight everybodiy
[02:54:00] * exec explicitly penetrates a megabyte of cobol with everybodiy
[02:54:09] <mecctro> yea, bit wacky atm, gnight cmn32480
[02:54:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> #nelson cmn32480
[02:54:10] <MrPlow> cmn32480: HA HA!
[02:54:32] <cmn32480> nothign like duplicated funtionality
[02:54:55] <cmn32480> story queue is good to baout 10am
[02:54:57] <cmn32480> eastern
[02:57:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you da man. da young, sleepy man.
[02:58:11] <NCommander> ++ cmn32480
[02:58:11] <CookiePuss> Karma - : 1
[02:58:15] <NCommander> ...
[02:58:16] <NCommander> WTF?
[02:58:24] <NCommander> What the hell did I just karma
[02:58:26] <NCommander> cmn32480++
[02:58:26] <Bender> karma - cmn32480: 67
[02:58:29] <NCommander> --
[02:58:31] <NCommander> --
[02:58:31] <CookiePuss> Karma - : -1
[02:58:44] <NCommander> wait ... it went from 1 to -1?
[02:58:47] <NCommander> What happened to zero?
[02:58:54] <cmn32480> ++
[02:59:00] <NCommander> Put a space after it
[02:59:02] <NCommander> ++
[02:59:02] <CookiePuss> Karma - : 1
[02:59:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> ++
[02:59:04] <CookiePuss> Karma - : 1
[02:59:06] <NCommander> O_o;
[02:59:16] * cmn32480 blames chromas
[02:59:17] <NCommander> ++ --
[02:59:17] <CookiePuss> Karma - : 1
[02:59:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> thas interesting and confusing
[02:59:28] <NCommander> ++ cmn32480
[02:59:28] <CookiePuss> Karma - : 1
[02:59:31] <NCommander> um yeah
[02:59:34] <NCommander> I think we broke the bot
[02:59:52] <NCommander> Plus prefix incrementation should be supported
[03:00:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> ++cmn32480
[03:00:16] <CookiePuss> Karma - cmn32480: 1
[03:00:22] * cmn32480 forgot to make his reservations for tomorrow night
[03:00:24] <arti> hmm.
[03:00:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> evenin, arti
[03:01:36] <mecctro> that's some super Karma
[03:01:42] <mecctro> spooky even ;)
[03:01:50] <arti> evening
[03:01:54] <arti> how's the rust coming along?
[03:03:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> well enough. gonna play with it more tomorrow. provide even more duplicated functionality that nobody wants.
[03:04:13] <arti> cargo++
[03:04:13] <Bender> karma - cargo: 1
[03:04:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, it is pretty handy as build systems go.
[03:06:16] <arti> fiddled with golang at all?
[03:06:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> the language itself i kinda dig on as well.
[03:06:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, not yet.
[03:07:04] <arti> rust is pretty neat, you aware of https://www.redox-os.org ?
[03:07:05] <CookiePuss> ^ 03Redox - Your Next(Gen) OS
[03:08:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> heard of it. may try it in another five years or so once the primary teething is over.
[03:08:53] <arti> teething++
[03:08:53] <Bender> karma - teething: 1
[03:08:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> really, if i'm gonna play that close to the metal, i prefer something that stops me from doing stupid things unless i tell it i really mean it.
[03:09:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> and not having to fuck with fencepost errors nearly as often.
[03:09:41] <arti> is the bot the toy project?
[03:09:55] <arti> i've been kicking around a stats parser
[03:10:07] <arti> pattern matching makes it kinda fun
[03:10:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup. ported him from perl to C to rust
[03:10:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> may grab another high level language next just for kicks.
[03:11:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i noticed you'd been spouting stats regularly
[03:12:21] <arti> yeah, that's the mirc one. i got out of the habit
[03:12:31] <arti> i've been lazy about repairing the shim script to fire it on demand and upload it
[03:12:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> only thing i don't particularly dig about rust is extremely immature libs
[03:12:43] <arti> uh, the test has been the irpg stats
[03:12:48] <arti> yeah those suck ass
[03:12:58] <arti> my language of focus recently is elixir
[03:13:06] <arti> first real go on the JVM
[03:13:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yerk. i hadda brush up on java a while back to write minecraft mods with the roomie's boy child. thankfully he's mostly lost interest.
[03:14:19] <arti> QuickStats by mIRCStats - The most active people for the last 1 days: TheMightyBuzzard: 313 lines, SirFinkus: 259, Bytram: 234, Ethanol-fueled: 205, Runaway1956: 169, Bender: 166, takyon: 165, Cmn32480: 165, xhedit: 146, mecctro: 110
[03:14:20] <arti> New stats available for #Soylent! Check out the stats at http://antiartificial.com
[03:14:20] <CookiePuss> ^✓ 03#Soylent stats: 31.7.2016!
[03:14:59] <arti> minecraft :D
[03:15:04] <arti> saw some neat EE mods for it
[03:15:22] <arti> saw a minecraft php integration thingy
[03:15:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> it'd be fun if they did it in some sane language but goddamn do i not wanna write java.
[03:16:10] <arti> Elixir is different than Java thankfully
[03:16:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> garbage collection in an OO environment...
[03:16:54] * TheMightyBuzzard shudders
[03:17:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> think i'll take that notice as a cue to go to bed since it's already an hour past bedtime
[03:18:02] <arti> alright sir, catch ya later
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[04:00:44] <SirFinkus> mmmm, curry
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[04:25:02] <mecctro> curry makes for some mean shits
[04:27:35] <SirFinkus> I've had gas all day anyway
[04:34:11] <mecctro> might as well go full flood than
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[05:31:29] <MDC> Wassup
[05:32:12] <MDC> Are you all asleep? The night is still young!
[05:33:10] <MDC> I'm going to put all your hands into bowls of warm water
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[05:34:05] * xhedit pees on the ghost of MDC
[05:39:06] <julian> I should be in bed
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[06:44:19] <SirFinkus> connection problems mecctro?
[06:47:14] <mecctro> just moving over to hexchat from thunderturd
[06:50:37] <mecctro> how art though SirFunkus?
[06:55:31] <mecctro> coffee++
[06:55:31] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2833
[06:55:42] <mecctro> nicotine++
[06:55:42] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 129
[06:56:42] <SirFinkus> pretty good
[06:56:43] <SirFinkus> feeling old
[06:56:51] <mecctro> Why so?
[06:57:20] <SirFinkus> arguing with people that think Oblivion was the best Elder Scrolls game
[06:59:01] <mecctro> I didn't play either
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[07:06:23] Guest63418 is now known as FatPhil
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[07:22:13] <SirFinkus> you don't play "reliable irc connection" either apparently
[07:23:28] <mecctro> I'm good, just had some setup issues.
[07:50:53] <SirFinkus> BANNED
[07:52:11] <mecctro> cofee++
[07:52:11] <Bender> karma - cofee: 4
[07:52:14] <mecctro> lol
[07:52:23] <mecctro> 4 mispelled coffees so far
[07:52:28] <mecctro> coffee++
[07:52:28] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2834
[07:55:49] <SirFinkus> it's ok, coffee is cheating anyway
[07:55:56] <SirFinkus> which is why I never use karma
[07:58:03] <mecctro> Gotta get that RUSH
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[10:17:43] <crutchy> * Connection failed ((336151568) error:14094410:SSL routines:SSL3_READ_BYTES:sslv3 alert handshake failure)
[10:17:57] <crutchy> anyone else having trouble connecting on 6697?
[10:17:59] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[10:17:59] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[10:18:09] <crutchy> ~g'day TheMightyBuzzard sir o/
[10:18:11] * exec half-heartedly ejaculates a safespace of splooge at TheMightyBuzzard
[10:18:17] <crutchy> ew
[10:18:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, ciphers got upgraded. gotta be able to TLS. sslv3 got nixed
[10:18:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday crutchy
[10:18:36] * exec emphatically planks a doubly-linked list of pyjama time for crutchy
[10:19:04] <crutchy> does it use a proper cert? like from lets encrypt or something?
[10:19:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> just connected on 6697 with hexchat though
[10:20:05] <crutchy> i'm updating exec to use tls with a context for the ssl cert
[10:20:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> think it uses the internal cert for some fool reason
[10:20:14] <crutchy> oh
[10:20:23] <crutchy> don't spose you could linky?
[10:21:00] <crutchy> crt file or whatever is available
[10:21:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> here's our CA's crt
[10:21:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://sylnt.us
[10:21:07] <CookiePuss> ^ 03( https://sylnt.us )
[10:21:11] <crutchy> cool. thanks mate
[10:21:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> it'll make ya trust anything we issue so's we can read yer gmail.
[10:21:40] <crutchy> wtf is gmail?
[10:21:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think it's like regular mail for homeboys
[10:30:31] * crutchy just had to use wget to download a crt file, cuz iceweasel was being ghey :|
[10:33:57] <crutchy> hmm. am i dumb or is that crt missing a peer name?
[10:34:47] <crutchy> oh wait it's for the CA?
[10:35:13] <crutchy> is there a crt for say *.soylentnews.org signed by this CA?
[10:35:45] <crutchy> hmm. might be able to geddit from the website
[10:37:24] <crutchy> hmm nope the CN for the site is just soylentnews.org
[10:37:36] <crutchy> is there one for *.sylnt.us?
[10:38:45] <crutchy> woohoo let's encrypt :)
[10:41:26] <crutchy> err i dunno if this is gunna work. the peer name is "irc.sylnt.us" but the chat.soylentnews.org cert only has logs.sylnt.us and sylnt.us etc
[10:42:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> yark
[10:43:12] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[10:43:28] <Booga1> Yay for cert updates. Oh, I meant, "Boo for cert updates."
[10:43:37] <Booga1> Pain in the rear...
[10:43:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i can give yas the crt for *.soylentnews.org signed by our CA
[10:43:47] <crutchy> lets encrypt is gud
[10:43:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> lemme find it
[10:44:08] <crutchy> nah i think it will need to be for irc.sylnt.us
[10:44:33] <crutchy> unless i try connecting to chat.soylentnews.org (which is the one signed by lets encrypt)
[10:44:43] <crutchy> hmm. yeah i'll try that
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[10:46:26] <crutchy> looks like ssl in my hexchat is still borken, but at least i can connect to chat.soylentnews.org/6667
[10:46:42] <crutchy> so exec should be able to connect with tls through 6697
[10:48:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://staff.soylentnews.org
[10:49:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, don't use irc.sylnt.us. we don't use sylnt.us
[10:49:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> use irc.soylentnews.org
[10:54:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, we do use sylnt.us for some things but our certs are all for soylentnews.org
[11:04:26] <crutchy> looks like irc.sylnt.us is still the name in the charybdis config
[11:04:42] <crutchy> but yeah i won't connect the socket to that anymore
[11:11:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> blerg, i forgot what the testing info for my rust bot was
[11:12:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, right, i haven't kept the local db up to date anyway
[11:21:17] * AndyTheAbsurd yawns
[11:21:17] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into AndyTheAbsurd's gaping mouth
[11:22:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> woah, missed my 6am smoke break
[11:22:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[11:22:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[11:22:59] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 130
[11:30:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, i know what's wrong...
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[11:37:39] <crutchy> think i'm ready for some breakage :p
[11:37:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> do eet!
[11:45:35] * TheMightyBuzzard debates on writing a function to tell an rss feed from an atom feed
[11:47:03] <crutchy> shouldn't be too hard eh?
[11:47:07] <crutchy> just look for item
[11:47:44] <crutchy> oh dear. i think it has been a loooooong time since i updated my vm :|
[11:48:26] <crutchy> x borked on peer verify so i'm wondering if mebe my system certs are (way) out of date
[11:49:00] <crutchy> actually it worked in browser so wtf?
[11:54:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm?
[11:54:07] <crutchy> looks like charybdis is using a different cert from the webchat
[11:54:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes
[11:54:20] <crutchy> (found using openssl s_client -host chat.soylentnews.org -port 6697)
[11:54:48] <crutchy> i'll try use the wildcard cert you linked
[11:55:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> the web client is using LE, chary is using the wildcard
[11:56:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> why, you might ask? because audioguy has a hardon for using our own CA even though nothing trusts it by default.
[12:03:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, time for caffeine and nicotine
[12:03:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:03:27] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2835
[12:03:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:03:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:03:28] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 131
[12:03:38] <crutchy> got around it by just setting verify_peer to false in the context :p
[12:03:50] <crutchy> php ftw!
[12:11:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> that works
[12:19:34] <crutchy> to get this thing to verify i think i need to combine the certs into a bundle
[12:20:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> like voltron?
[12:20:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #youtube chicks are like voltron
[12:20:59] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[12:21:13] <crutchy> voltron was awesome
[12:21:27] <crutchy> yay that worked :D
[12:21:29] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[12:21:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> that is not what i was looking for
[12:22:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> got atom feeds matching. now i just gotta write the regex for rssv2
[12:22:46] <crutchy> need to put this file on the server for clients without discovery
[12:22:47] <crutchy> http://pastebin.com
[12:22:48] <CookiePuss> ^ 03-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE----- MIIDyjCCArICCQCLj8R3VV4HETANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBuzE - Pastebin.com
[12:23:12] <crutchy> combines the *.soylentnews.org crt with the root CA cert
[12:24:05] <crutchy> (in that order)
[12:32:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, blarg
[12:34:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://staff.soylentnews.org
[12:34:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> where's my fookin title, bot?
[12:34:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> #weather
[12:34:27] <MrPlow> Today: Mostly sunny. High 93F. Winds light and variable. Tomorrow: Intervals of clouds and sunshine. A stray shower or thunderstorm is possible. High 91F. Winds N at 5 to 10 mph.
[12:34:48] <crutchy> ~title https://staff.soylentnews.org
[12:34:59] <crutchy> mebe no title?
[12:38:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> well i mean it don't have one but i want something back, damnit
[12:39:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> jew see NC is writing an article series on writing a DOS keylogger?
[12:40:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> bender oughta be announcing it shortly
[12:41:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know, there's better ways to generate a static rss feed file than just running a script every 15m.
[12:42:33] <crutchy> probably
[12:42:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i think i wanna change the timing on that script to 5m anyway
[12:42:43] <crutchy> http long polling?
[12:42:48] <crutchy> oh
[12:42:52] <NCommander> Morning
[12:42:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, yo.
[12:43:09] <crutchy> ~g'day NCommander sir o/
[12:43:09] <NCommander> I love the first comment on the DOS post is about my age
[12:43:11] * exec fanatically twerks an animated gif of glass for NCommander
[12:43:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know, and it was utterly wrong even
[12:43:49] <crutchy> did they mention something about your gentoo beard?
[12:44:35] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I was amused
[12:44:46] <NCommander> crutchy, more of a stubble right now
[12:45:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> millennials allegedly means folks who turned 18-20 in 2k but that's fookin Gen-Y territory still.
[12:47:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, fine, yer technically a millennial according to my google-fu but if i hear anything about feeling the Bern yer getting a good kicking
[12:47:52] <crutchy> ol bernie sure felt the bern
[12:48:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, right in his rectum
[12:48:49] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I do hope people find it interesting, if a tad dry
[12:48:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> socialist retard that he was, at least i got the impression that he was nearly a decent human being.
[12:49:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, interested me. i never did any pre-32-bit coding except on my trs-80.
[12:50:00] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard, do a /whois on x
[12:50:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> yays
[12:50:18] <crutchy> :)
[12:50:20] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, your trash-80 is older than me The oldest I did when I was a kid was Apple II on the 6502
[12:50:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i gots better =P
[12:50:48] <NCommander> 6502 FOR LIFE!
[12:51:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> man my trs-80 was nearly older than me. thankfully i was a precocious little shit.
[12:51:35] <crutchy> for some reason when i tried to force the cipher to that it broked. maybe my poota doesn't have it :|
[12:51:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, could be
[12:52:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno if mine does honestly. that's what ZNC is connected with.
[12:52:26] <crutchy> i ended up defaulting to ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES128-GCM-SHA256:kEDH+AESGCM:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES12
[12:52:29] <crutchy> 8-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:AES128-GCM-SHA256:AES256-GCM-SHA384:ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-RC4-SHA:AES128:AES256:RC4-SHA:HIGH:!aNULL:!eNULL:!EXPORT:!DES:!3DES:!MD5:!PSK
[12:52:51] <crutchy> which is some mozilla thingy
[12:52:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> shurg
[12:53:26] <crutchy> i guess it picks whichever comes first in the list that it finds on the system
[12:53:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[12:56:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> why for !EXPORT?
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[12:57:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> ah, nevermind
[12:59:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> wewt, 8:00
[12:59:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:59:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:59:37] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 132
[13:00:50] <crutchy> i think x is a bit quicker
[13:01:15] <crutchy> got rid of the clunky old antiflog delay and used select instead
[13:06:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> yays
[13:07:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> hey, crutchy, as a non-staff member of the community, what's yer feelins on having the site go HPKP?
[13:07:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> #g hpkp
[13:07:44] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "HTTP Public Key Pinning (HPKP) is a security mechanism which allows HTTPS websites to resist impersonation by attackers using mis-issued or otherwise ..."
[13:08:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> givens: 1) improved security 2) could potentially permanently brick the site if we lose the key
[13:09:40] <crutchy> dunno. i'm not qualified to opinionate
[13:09:58] <crutchy> if you guys think it will be good, go fer it
[13:10:12] <crutchy> hmm. i guess that's an opinion :|
[13:12:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> we're both divided and uncertain
[13:12:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i think passing out keys to all the staff so you don't brick the site is about as good as posting them publicly.
[13:13:44] <crutchy> i suppose the other way of looking at it is by comparison to other sites of similar risk
[13:14:04] <crutchy> its not like SN is a bank
[13:14:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> feh, screw other sites. they're run by idiots.
[13:14:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, true but we do like playing with all the latest n greatest security stuff.
[13:14:43] <crutchy> well, in that case fuck other sites :)
[13:14:54] <crutchy> SN can be the trendsetter
[13:15:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> zactly
[13:15:32] <crutchy> but it just depends on what workload/responsibility it puts on you guys
[13:15:36] * TheMightyBuzzard goes ahead and writes a twitter replacement for SN. with blackjack, and hookers.
[13:16:05] <crutchy> thats why i think whoever has to look after shit probably needs to have a bigger say
[13:16:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> no workload, massive brick the site risk or securing a gerzillion keys that a gerzillion people have.
[13:17:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> really you just put the key in and bob's yer uncle. woe betide unto you if you lose the key though.
[13:17:32] <crutchy> losing the key will be the workload
[13:17:42] <crutchy> s/be/cause/
[13:17:42] <sedctl> <crutchy> losing the key will cause the workload
[13:17:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh that's not a workload. you're fucked. proper fucked, like the rabbit.
[13:18:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> lose the key and you cannot do ssl anymore. evar.
[13:19:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is no method for "oops"
[13:22:13] <crutchy> oh
[13:22:29] <crutchy> so how do you manage that risk?
[13:25:19] <NCommander> It amazes me EXPORT is still enabled by default on a lot of SSL shit
[13:25:19] <NCommander> -_-
[13:25:57] * NCommander can *somewhat* understand it in 2001 when stuff still running 40-bit export SSL was common, but that shit was mostly dead and gone by 2001
[13:26:09] <NCommander> understand it in 1999
[13:27:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, you basically have everyone on staff generate a pass for the privkey and keep it somewhere safe. correct, NCommander?
[13:29:26] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, if we do HPKP, pretty much. Alternatively, the sysops all generate keys and we keyshard them among the staff.
[13:29:58] <crutchy> what happens if a staff member goes awol?
[13:30:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, the NSA gets to read all your shitposts
[13:30:21] <NCommander> crutchy, generally you only need a majority of the shards. i.e, 14 staff, only need 7
[13:30:23] <crutchy> ~last nick=xlefay
[13:30:25] <exec> 03
[13:30:25] <exec> http://chromas.0x.no
[13:30:34] <crutchy> derp
[13:30:45] <crutchy> ah
[13:31:08] <NCommander> crutchy, TheMightyBuzzard: you can do idiotic things to recover like season specific SSL private keys to use the compromised key to set new ones but its idiotic
[13:31:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> mmmm.... coffee
[13:32:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:32:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2836
[13:32:30] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, what we should probably do is in addition to staff key pins is also pin a few CA certificates. If we manage to loose all the keys, at least a certificate from a given CA would be recongized
[13:32:48] <crutchy> coffee++
[13:32:48] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2837
[13:33:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> okey doke. got mrplow able to parse both rssv2 and atom feeds. there is no lib for rssv1 apparently.
[13:33:53] * TheMightyBuzzard ponders
[13:34:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, would need to be a specific cert, yes? not any old cert signed by the CA?
[13:35:01] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, you can pin the intermidate certs though that has its own set of headaches. I don't think you can pin to the root
[13:35:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> in that case a key is a key is a key. its content is irrelevant.
[13:36:06] <crutchy> ~tell cmn32480 exec been updated, and part of that update is verified tls connection. to get that to work you need a bundled crt file. can get it from https://staff.soylentnews.org
[13:37:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> #tell cmn32480 MrPlow's tell command is better than exec's
[13:37:02] <MrPlow> Okay, I'll tell them next time I see them.
[13:37:04] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, honestly, a part of me kinda wants to say "fuck it" to HPKP except the CA model is fairly broken and HPKP does offer real security
[13:37:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, not if you have a gerzillion keys out there.
[13:37:46] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I had the same concern about HSTS but at least HSTS recovery is always possible
[13:38:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> i say we wait on HPKP until there's a revocation method agreed upon by browser makers.
[13:38:35] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, cold day in hell
[13:38:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya
[13:38:48] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, we could set HPKP-Report and then at least notify pepole they're being MITNed
[13:39:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... so not actually require the HPKP but just report if it fails?
[13:39:35] <crutchy> Soylent Prism
[13:39:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can live with that
[13:40:18] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah, it sends a message to a URL (which has to be on a different domain), we can catch that message and inject it back into the main site on pin failure
[13:40:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can dig that. we can use sylnt.us
[13:41:00] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, honestly, part of me is tempted to go over on the Pale Moon forums and see if they'll take patches to implement DANE support
[13:41:43] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, its possible they give enough shit about their users to do so, though I'd probably end up having to code it. Postfix to my knowledge is the only major bit of software that does DANE out of the box, and that's mostly because SMTP servers very rarely require cert validity
[13:41:55] <NCommander> (which is idiotic, but at least prevents passive sniffing)
[13:42:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> gnawed gnawed
[13:42:11] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, which reminds me I need to fix bery's SMTP certificates, they're on our CA
[13:42:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> yick
[13:42:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> wouldn't suck to switch chary over to LE either since it is a public facing service
[13:43:17] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I get audioguy's objections to LE, I really do, but its hard for me to argue that its worth having a private CA structure.
[13:43:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I *think* the only critical infrastructure dependent on our CA is the MySQL SSL links, and even then they might not use it anymore. I can't rememebr if it worked with NDBd
[13:44:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh sure, for internal stuff. for external stuff it makes us look like dipshits.
[13:44:10] <crutchy> ~tell cmn32480 also there's added SSL_PEER_NAME and SSL_CA_FILE settings. you'll probably need to set the SSL_CA_FILE to suit. ref: https://github.com
[13:44:25] <crutchy> ~g'night #soylent
[13:44:27] * exec homogeneously nudges a thing of grandma's gash toward #soylent
[13:44:31] <crutchy> o.O
[13:44:37] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, what blew my mind when I looked at this last is the fact that Chrome doesn't bother checking certification revocation anymore
[13:44:41] <NCommander> That was a massive WTF
[13:44:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> you gotta be shittin me
[13:45:13] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, https://www.grc.com
[13:45:14] <CookiePuss> ^ 03GRC's|Chrome's CRLSet Effectiveness Evaluation
[13:45:50] <xhedit> why the let's encrypt hate?
[13:46:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> xhedit, stubbornness mostly. audioguy is as opinionated as i am.
[13:47:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> well almost
[13:47:18] <NCommander> xhedit, a lot of it boils down to the fact that SSL certs shouldn't be issued to just be proving you own a domain. AKA, DV validation shouldn't exit
[13:47:39] <crutchy> let's encrypt ftw!
[13:47:49] <NCommander> xhedit, and the fact that LE doesn't revoke certificates at all. No CRL. They have OCSP, but I think that's mostly because browsers require SOMETHING
[13:48:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, it should but dnssec should be mandatory.
[13:48:18] <xhedit> I mean, people shouldn't be able to generate certs on arbitrary domains
[13:48:21] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, well to be fair it took us two years to actually deploy it
[13:48:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, that's cause we were busy fucking off with other things
[13:48:47] <NCommander> Signing the li694-22 zone (which is a *good* idea cause Hesiod) is going to require setting trust anchors. That's going to be exciting
[13:49:12] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[13:49:12] <xhedit> cert revokation is a giant pain in teh ass anyway
[13:49:24] <NCommander> xhedit, OCSP-Must-Staple would basically fix it (finally)
[13:49:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> i get why they can't do cert revocation though. they have no method of proving you are who you say you are.
[13:49:46] <NCommander> xhedit, which is why I went through the pain of making our CentOS box have an updated Apache so it can staple replies
[13:50:09] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, which argues you shouldn't be issuing certs ;). It's really more proving the CA model as a whole is absolutely idiotic
[13:50:27] <xhedit> agreed
[13:50:40] <NCommander> CAs work for things like EV, but for general encryption, not so much. The problem with DANE is mostly that last-mile DNSSEC is a major issue
[13:51:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd dig LE more if they just verified that shit beyond mechanical means. tie it to a person. make people looking to hijack at least work for it.
[13:51:12] <NCommander> If a normal client wants to check DNSSEC, it checks for the D0 flag in the eDNS header being set
[13:51:32] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, you weren't around when I had to fake being mrcoolbp to reissue the site SSL certificates in an emergency
[13:51:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> har!
[13:52:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd have a hard time of that. i only know his first name and phone number as far as personal details go.
[13:53:04] <xhedit> i think it'll be amusing if someone owns a webserver and uses it to gen an LE cert at some point in the future
[13:53:12] <NCommander> Honestly, what I feel the correct model is current CAs + DANE pinning. If you only trust DANE, then you're in the situation that whoever controls the roots controls certificate validity (though I question if even the NSA could actually fake the entire chain of trust even if they had the private keys)
[13:53:44] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, whois information + access to his soylentnews.org email + Google. There's a reason mutt is installed on beryllium
[13:54:01] <NCommander> Did a PW reset, then had the certs reissued
[13:55:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh they could. they have a room in every significant telecom hub that allows them to sniff all traffic passing through it. wouldn't surprise me if they could inject and blackhole packets as well as read them.
[13:56:01] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, well, not really. To implement a DNSSEC resolver, you have the IANA root keys burned into your DNS server software (which is why RSASHA1 continues to persist beside being insecure)
[13:56:37] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, so to resign the DNS root, you'd need the actual IANA private key or a way to replace it. You could possibly fake it by forcing a hash collision from the KSK to the ZSK on "."
[13:56:45] <NCommander> Which is probably how they'd do it
[13:56:47] <xhedit> just need better keys on DNSSEC
[13:56:50] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[13:57:12] <NCommander> xhedit, the hardcoding is everywhere. We're signed with RSASHA256 keys (EC has iffy support), but I think the chain of trust from .org is SHA1
[13:57:14] * NCommander checks
[13:58:11] <NCommander> xhedit, nope, I'm wrong. .org is signing us with SHA256. The root is still using SHA1 though
[13:58:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, i'd honestly be amazed if they haven't already done so.
[13:58:28] <NCommander> (its dual signed)
[13:58:45] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, you overstate Verisign's competence
[13:59:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> the CIA would probably be quite happy to send someone in to snag the necessary keys in return for intel in return.
[14:00:13] <NCommander> Correction, org's DNSKEY is SHA1 signing our DS records
[14:00:24] <NCommander> so yeah, SHA1 :/
[14:00:42] <NCommander> Amusingly, the .us domain is showing a DNSSEC error since they have an old DNSKEY still posted. Key rotation is hard
[14:01:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> really i'd be amazed if every significant security bottleneck didn't have at least 1/10th of its employees being spies.
[14:01:25] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:01:25] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2838
[14:01:30] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, my guess is they're using a hardware secure key that means you'd have to physically disassemble the device and not destroy it to key the private key
[14:01:59] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that's fairly standard for "can't be compromised/lost" keys. I know Microsoft has used those devices, and I had one for my GPG keys for awhile
[14:02:07] <xhedit> i recently went through and forced all my local pcs to require hmac-sha2-512 for mac and drop ciphers without PFS
[14:02:34] <xhedit> just for on lan ssh
[14:02:46] <NCommander> xhedit, what pisses me off is its mostly Microsoft that's holding the web on TLS 1.0 and breakable CBCs. Windows has supported TLS 1.2 since 7, but it was shipped off by default until 10
[14:03:05] <xhedit> yeah tls1 is busted
[14:03:07] <NCommander> And *still* doesn't support downgrade protection (at least in SChannel/server)
[14:03:29] <NCommander> xhedit, its an amazing pile of hacks that prevent it from being broken, but the Lucky 13 attack was absolutely brilliant and/or nuts in how it works
[14:04:04] <NCommander> It doesn't help doing constant time operations in C is very difficult. Writing in pure assembly would make it easier, but who really wants to deal with writing ciphers in non-portable languages?
[14:04:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> well you CAN prevent downgrades but it means explicitly nixing anything you don't want downgraded to or specifying a very short list of ciphers
[14:04:53] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, well yes, but you can't disable TLS 1.0 without breaking Microsoft all. Firefox is OK because they ship NSS, and Chrome started shipping BoringSSL vs. using SChannel, but IE still has enough traffic that I can't justify the break
[14:05:06] <xhedit> side channel leakage is black magic
[14:05:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> my personal server currently requires tls1.2 cause there's me and there's honeybadgers
[14:05:39] <NCommander> xhedit, the fact is to avoid side channel you really need to have real-time constrains on a non-real time operating system
[14:05:57] <xhedit> yeah, power supply current leakage spilling your keys is insane though
[14:06:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think i'd notice anyone coming into my house to sniff side channels though.
[14:06:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> in a work environment, probably not.
[14:07:21] <xhedit> my verizon stb's are on the same mains power so, i don't trust it
[14:07:23] <NCommander> The DOS article has gotten a lot of posts
[14:07:27] <NCommander> I was expecting a cricket farm
[14:07:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah?
[14:07:51] <xhedit> I can't even make sense of it.. and I do modern assembly. i'm zombied out today
[14:08:07] <xhedit> i even know segments to some extent
[14:08:45] <NCommander> xhedit, maybe its my bad writing? :/
[14:08:55] <xhedit> no, I am completely brain dead
[14:09:01] <NCommander> xhedit, x86_16 requires ejecting everything you know about flat memory model programming
[14:09:33] <xhedit> I didn't learn asm until win32 so i never had to deal with near or far pointers, though i've seen them all over winapi
[14:10:45] <xhedit> I remember Gate A20 in bios but I had no idea the original impl was an actual gate on the address line until now :/
[14:11:00] <xhedit> seems obvious in hindsight
[14:11:55] * Bytram started on a pdp-8 with 12-bit address space
[14:12:07] <Bytram> octal++
[14:12:07] <Bender> karma - octal: 1
[14:12:18] <xhedit> octal sucks, hex is the one true data format
[14:12:51] * TheMightyBuzzard started on a trs-80, copying programs out of magazines he got from the local computer hobbyist shop.
[14:12:55] <Bytram> yeah, I would be going along for a while and then say... wait a minute... I haven't seen an '8' or a '9' in a while.... oh. Doh!
[14:13:39] <xhedit> yeah i learned basic from 3-2-1-contact
[14:13:40] <Bytram> my first home machine was a Ohio Scientific Challenger-4P with 4KB of memory and a 6502 at, I think, 2Mhz.
[14:13:45] <xhedit> as a kid with an 8088
[14:14:03] * Bytram type in many many a program in basic
[14:14:15] <NCommander> xhedit, NEAR/FAR are ignored on win32 compilers. They exist for Win32s compatibility.
[14:14:34] <NCommander> Since if you're Win32s-ing it, you still have to thunk into Win16 APIs which require FAR calls
[14:14:36] <Bytram> my next box was an Atari 800
[14:14:39] <Bytram> Starraiders++
[14:14:39] <Bender> karma - starraiders: 1
[14:14:57] <xhedit> I used a couple TI 99/4As
[14:15:04] <Bytram> and then commodore 64.... 6502 was a great little processor
[14:15:15] <xhedit> i have one in a box somewhere
[14:15:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> i skipped right over 8086/88 and 286. i was busy being interested in boobs.
[14:15:43] <xhedit> I got a 486 before boobs
[14:15:46] <Bytram> I have done assembly programming on a number of platforms, but somehow never got into ASM for he 8086, etc.
[14:16:18] <Bytram> NCommander: I'm struggling to understand the segment:offset math in your story
[14:16:47] <xhedit> F000:FFFF == F800:7FFF should be obvious enough
[14:17:08] <NCommander> xhedit, offset is added to segment. That threw me too.
[14:17:19] <Bytram> just add them together?
[14:17:33] <Bytram> or is there a shift involved, first?
[14:17:36] <NCommander> So basically you have 16-bits for the top of the address, then add another 16-bits (which sets the lower four of the 20-bit address space)
[14:18:01] <Bytram> so, 0001:00ff is what final addressss?
[14:18:13] <NCommander> 0x100ff I think
[14:18:49] <Bytram> so, 0001:ffff would be 0x1ffff ?
[14:19:15] <Bytram> i.e. segment*16 + offset ??
[14:20:09] <xhedit> https://en.wikipedia.org
[14:20:09] <CookiePuss> ^ 03Wiki: x86 memory segmentation
[14:21:14] <Bytram> For instance, the segmented address 06EFh:1234h (here the suffix "h" means hexadecimal) has a segment selector of 06EFh, representing a segment address of 06EF0h, to which we add the offset, yielding the linear address 06EF0h + 1234h = 08124h (hexadecimal).
[14:23:12] <Bytram> okay, that helps. /me goes back to the story examples.
[14:23:18] <NCommander> Bytram, welcome to the mindfuckery that non-flat memory maps are like ;
[14:23:25] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:23:35] <NCommander> A lot of the reason segmented architecture died was due to programmers killing themselves over it
[14:23:40] <Bytram> i have mucho experience with indexed addressing on the 6502
[14:23:45] <NCommander> The Apple II essentially did the same thing but saner
[14:23:50] <NCommander> Yeah, index addressing
[14:23:54] <Bytram> so base + offset is not an issue
[14:23:57] <NCommander> But that was basically just having a bunch of flat memory maps
[14:24:02] <Bytram> just trying to work out and verify the math.
[14:24:35] <Bytram> from the story: 0x000FFFFF could be written as F000:FFFF.
[14:24:46] <NCommander> Bytram, I actually copied the example from Wikipedia because my brain melted trying to do the conversion. Even on the rare time I did x86_16 work, I'd use a flat memory mode (CS=DS=SS) and fuck it. I usually am only in real mode long enough to do some init stuff and set the GDT
[14:25:00] <Bytram> k
[14:25:45] <Bytram> to my eye, a segment of F000 should be way up there in the memory address space, but 0x000ffff is down near the low end. /me confused.
[14:27:16] <NCommander> Bytram, little endian
[14:27:28] <NCommander> Bytram, the left most number is most significant.
[14:27:29] <Bytram> oh. feh!
[14:27:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, yall don't break Bytram's brain. we need him to test dev and make sure all the stuff still works after adding CSP.
[14:27:46] <Bytram> umm, other way around?
[14:27:48] <NCommander> Bytram, yeah. I actually learned assembly on PowerPC originally, so dealing with LSB/Little-Endian fucked with my brain
[14:28:31] <NCommander> Bytram, you might be right. fuck.
[14:28:36] <Bytram> little-endian; I thought left-most was *lest* significant.
[14:28:42] <Bytram> *least*
[14:28:44] <Runaway1956> That has always seemed an oxymoron to me - PowerPC
[14:28:50] <Runaway1956> do they make PC's that don't use power?
[14:29:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, make sure all the images and scripts and css that we want to work on live work on dev sometime before the weekend if you would =P
[14:30:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> you'll need to log out or use a non-admin account to do it though. admins don't get CSP.
[14:31:05] <Bytram> I'll see what I can do; first off, let's make sure that dev is up to the latest and greatest... which reminds me... as a proof-of-concept, I live-updated dev so that 'Reviews' was an active topic, and then PJ did some majic to make it actually happen... needs to be added into thebase
[14:31:51] * Bytram could not follow exactly what PJ did.
[14:32:40] <Bytram> for some reason, all the topics where enabled but (two?) of them, I just toggled the one for 'Reviews' from no to yes.
[14:32:48] <Bytram> *were enabled
[14:32:52] <NCommander> Runaway1956, PowerPC was specifically trying to replace the PC market. (i.e. WinNT and OS/2 for PowerPC)
[14:33:02] <NCommander> Runaway1956, it was 1995's version of IA64, except PPC didn't suck
[14:34:55] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: shiite... Ipicked up some extra hours at work... next day off is not until a week after tomorrow (Wed sept 7)
[14:34:59] <Bytram> afk biab
[14:35:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, s'aright. we'll make chromas and crutchy break it instead. they like that kinda stuff.
[14:36:25] -!- _muxer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[14:37:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i needa go myself. bills to run around and pay today.
[14:39:50] <Bytram> back for a short bit...
[14:40:44] <Bytram> still trying to grok segment:offset; if I have 0004:00FF what is the final address and what would the offsets be with segments of 0005: and 0006: ??
[14:44:27] <xhedit> 4ff, 5ff, 6ff
[14:44:52] <xhedit> er no
[14:45:31] <xhedit> 13f, 14f, 15f
[14:46:16] <Bytram> multiply the segment value '4' by 16 gets me: 0x40, right?
[14:46:27] <xhedit> or add 0 to the end of the hex, cheat code
[14:46:32] <Bytram> then add the 00FF, right?
[14:46:35] <xhedit> but yeah
[14:47:23] <Bytram> so that gets me a real address of 0x013f
[14:47:44] <Bytram> 0x40 + 0xFF == 0x13F
[14:48:29] <Bytram> then, since I incremented the value of the segment register, the offset value should go *down*, right?
[14:48:49] <Bytram> i.e. 0x13F - 0x50
[14:49:10] <xhedit> wat
[14:49:37] <NCommander> Bytram, http://wiki.osdev.org
[14:49:38] <CookiePuss> ^ 03Wiki: Segmentation
[14:49:47] <xhedit> http://thestarman.pcministry.com
[14:49:48] <CookiePuss> ^ 03The Segment:Offset Addressing Scheme
[14:50:39] <Bytram> NCommander: In Real Mode you use a logical address in the form A:B to address memory. This is translated into a physical address using the equation:
[14:50:39] <Bytram> Physical address = (A * 0x10) + B
[14:50:50] <xhedit> 0004:00FF = 0x40 + 0xFF = 0x13F, 0005:00FF = 0x50 + 0xFF = 0x14F .. etc
[14:51:09] <Bytram> ahh, I see the misunderstzanding....
[14:51:21] <NCommander> Yeah, segment notation requires a brain fuck. its not hard unless you need to convert to/from regular offsets though
[14:51:33] <Bytram> I'm treying to get different segment references to the same *physical* address.
[14:51:39] <NCommander> When you're actually coding, you just set CS/DS to the base address of what you want, and treat it as flat memory
[14:51:45] <Bytram> using sequential values of the segment value
[14:52:16] <xhedit> yeah, 0004:00FF is 0005:00EF
[14:52:28] <xhedit> unless I am smoking crack
[14:52:38] <NCommander> xhedit, that sounds right to me
[14:52:42] <Bytram> so, 0004:00FF == 0x1EF == 0005:00EF == 0006:00DF ??
[14:52:48] <NCommander> the 20-bit address map is what makes it bloody screwy
[14:52:59] <NCommander> And the rules change in 80286 protected mode
[14:53:17] <NCommander> Which increased the address space to 24 bit (16 MiB)
[14:53:24] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:53:40] <NCommander> And then changed again in 80386 protected mode which went full 32-bit, but also gave us the ability to do a flat memory model
[14:54:00] <xhedit> I don't think any 286s actually came with 16mb ram though
[14:54:09] <boru> The Inhell ISA is a total mess.
[14:54:13] <NCommander> 80386 protected mode actually gives you a 48-bit address space. That's how PAE works which is why you can break the 4 GiB memory barrier but applications are limited to 4 GiB in total
[14:54:31] <NCommander> xhedit, you can do 80286 protected mode on the 386
[14:54:38] <Bytram> so, 0004:00FF == 0x1EF == 0005:00EF == 0006:00DF == 0007:00CF == 0008:00BF == ... == 000F:004F Is that right?
[14:54:47] <NCommander> Bytram, www.bingo.com
[14:54:52] <Bytram> lol
[14:55:05] <NCommander> Bytram, I actually posted why segment:offset breaks C in two bits, requiring a third type of pointer to make C work sanely (huge pointers)
[14:55:06] <xhedit> yeah but with a 386 everyone was like fuck this, DOS4GW here we come
[14:55:32] <NCommander> xhedit, funny enough, segmenting didn't even die complete on x86_64. rgs and rfs still exist
[14:55:50] <NCommander> 64-bit segment, 64-bit offset
[14:55:55] <NCommander> Embrace the mindfuck
[14:56:11] <xhedit> yeah the segment register still exists :P
[14:56:37] <Bytram> just increment the segment by 1 for each 64-bit VM and call it good. =)
[14:56:48] <NCommander> Bytram, xhedit: https://soylentnews.org - here's the reason why C sucks on x86_16
[14:56:50] <CookiePuss> ^ 03SN comment by [02NCommander (2)] (02Score:2)
[14:57:01] <Bytram> ok, ASLR would suggest otherwise, of course
[14:57:38] <NCommander> Bytram, the annoying thing is segmented memory models actually kill most buffer overflows dead in their tracks since you'll clobber the DS. Stack overflows can only affect SS
[14:57:50] <NCommander> (yes, the 80286 had NX back in 1987)
[14:57:55] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:58:12] <Bytram> pink floyd: keep your hands offa my stack
[14:58:17] <Bytram> =)
[14:58:18] <xhedit> unless it has a popad !
[14:58:20] <NCommander> I can't remmeber offhand if the stack was executable in 80286 protected mode
[14:58:55] <NCommander> xhedit, god, I could have fun with the mindfuck of bugs that was the 80386 B0/B1 stepping
[14:59:00] <xhedit> or popa i guess
[14:59:00] <NCommander> Buggy doesn't even begin to describe it
[15:00:05] <NCommander> xhedit, yeah, back in that day, processors lacked most of the QA we take for granted.
[15:00:19] <NCommander> xhedit, it wasn't really until the f00f bug and the Pentium FDIV did Intel actually learn
[15:00:23] <xhedit> what QA? how many times has TSX not worked.
[15:00:33] <NCommander> xhedit, touche
[15:01:32] <NCommander> I'm rather suprised on the uptake on this article. Seriously, I was expecting a cricket farm
[15:04:15] <xhedit> https://i.imgur.com
[15:05:14] <xhedit> soylent, being the redhead redneck neckbeard rejects of slashdot has a pretty high selection of actual techies
[15:05:46] <NCommander> xhedit, I'm waiting for the day slashdot.org links to us, and the site gets slashdotted
[15:06:17] <Bytram> fwiw, there was a recent comment on Ars that pointed at one of our stories. =)
[15:06:41] * Bytram the Ars nick does not exist on SN, btw
[15:06:52] <xhedit> that mozilla ssl observatory thing actually had a couple of the third party ssl things involved get soylented after it was posted
[15:07:42] <xhedit> I was trying to use it at 5am or something and it was fucking up
[15:09:12] <Bytram> xhedit: I prefer the terminology that we 'Soyled' a site. =)
[15:09:35] <NCommander> Bytram, I think that's the "official" term mostly cause I've used it a few times went the site has crapped itself
[15:09:52] -!- Gravis [Gravis!~gravis@bi53-240-819-373.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #Soylent
[15:10:17] <Bytram> speaking of which... it's been a *long* time since that happened, when it used to be a pretty regular thing... we HAVE come a long way!
[15:10:19] <Bytram> teamwork++
[15:10:19] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 26
[15:11:21] <Gravis> SirFinkus: it's not the innocence of youth, it's the ignorance of youth.
[15:11:39] <NCommander> Bytram, rehash fixed most of the common site bricks
[15:11:48] <NCommander> Bytram, since Apache 1.3 would deadlock if you sneezed
[15:11:55] <Bytram> NCommander++
[15:11:55] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 93
[15:12:00] <Bytram> allergies--
[15:12:01] <Bender> karma - allergies: -1
[15:12:07] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++
[15:12:07] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 254
[15:12:09] <Bytram> paulej72++
[15:12:09] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 224
[15:12:15] <NCommander> ... my karma is low
[15:12:31] <xhedit> NCommander++
[15:12:31] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 94
[15:12:33] <NCommander> mov ecx, 3000
[15:12:43] <NCommander> incrementKarma:
[15:12:50] <NCommander> push ncommanderKarma
[15:12:53] <Gravis> GOTO 10
[15:12:55] <NCommander> call incrememntKarma
[15:12:57] <NCommander> loop
[15:13:02] <NCommander> er
[15:13:05] <Gravis> detonate
[15:13:06] <NCommander> loop incrementKarma
[15:13:17] <Gravis> ;
[15:13:20] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:20] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 95
[15:13:21] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:21] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 96
[15:13:21] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:21] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 97
[15:13:21] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:21] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 98
[15:13:21] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:21] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 99
[15:13:21] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:21] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 100
[15:13:23] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:23] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 101
[15:13:25] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:25] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 102
[15:13:27] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:27] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 103
[15:13:27] <xhedit> jmp incrementKarma geez what kind of barbarian are you
[15:13:29] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:29] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 104
[15:13:31] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:31] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 105
[15:13:33] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:33] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 106
[15:13:35] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:35] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 107
[15:13:37] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:37] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 108
[15:13:39] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:39] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 109
[15:13:40] <NCommander> xhedit, you need to return to the loop
[15:13:41] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:41] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 110
[15:13:43] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:43] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 111
[15:13:45] <paulej72> NCommander++
[15:13:45] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 112
[15:13:48] <xhedit> no need for that
[15:13:51] <NCommander> and appartantly paulej72 is powered by Intel processors
[15:14:19] <Bytram> NCommander+=0x100 =)
[15:14:23] <paulej72> buffers++
[15:14:23] <Bender> karma - buffers: 1
[15:14:34] <NCommander> xhedit, ok, fine, I can treat it as a RISC processor and not use the CISC goodness.
[15:14:47] <NCommander> xhedit, though I suppose I should be happy its not VAX and its hardware quicksort instruction
[15:14:48] <Gravis> NCommander: CISC died
[15:15:05] <Gravis> NCommander: x86 is secretly RISC
[15:15:14] <NCommander> Gravis, intel disagrees with you. Its RISC internally but the programming interface is still CISC
[15:16:12] <Gravis> NCommander: intel cheats on every comparison and sabatoge the competition with their compiler. i don't think their word is worth shit at this point.
[15:16:27] <NCommander> Gravis, and yet that couldn't save Itanium
[15:16:36] <Gravis> NCommander: exactly
[15:16:37] * xhedit fuses all of gravis's micro-ops
[15:16:46] <NCommander> ufh
[15:16:55] <NCommander> I need to pack and do real life stuff
[15:16:56] <NCommander> ;.;
[15:17:15] <Bytram> yeah, and it's time for me to get going on my day, too.
[15:17:20] <Gravis> NCommander: you don't have to pack when you go to jail. -_-
[15:17:36] <NCommander> Gravis, ...
[15:17:41] <NCommander> Gravis, why am I going to jail?
[15:17:44] <Bytram> many thanks for the segment:offset lesson... ILST!
[15:17:45] <Gravis> NCommander: in jail they pack you. ;)
[15:17:59] <NCommander> Gravis, ... really? A soviet russia joke?
[15:18:01] <NCommander> -_-;
[15:18:20] <Gravis> NCommander: obviously you are being send to jail for possession of illegal opcodes.
[15:18:27] <Runaway1956> Gravis is just enjoying some homoerotic daydreams, wishing he were being packed in jail
[15:18:27] <Gravis> sent*
[15:18:47] <Gravis> Runaway1956: you're projecting again
[15:19:10] <Runaway1956> Wasn't me that brought the subject up - you imposed it on all of us.
[15:23:17] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[15:23:46] <Bytram|away> Runaway1956: btw, seems like your request was already taken care of
[15:23:50] <Bytram|away> Runaway1956: btw, seems like your request was already taken care of
[15:24:11] <Bytram|away> oops, wait a minute
[15:24:50] * Bytram|away didn't notice it ran awhile ago.
[15:25:00] <Bytram|away> updated.
[15:27:50] <Runaway1956> ditto
[15:28:03] <Bytram|away> all better; thanks for the heads up
[15:28:39] <Runaway1956> no problem - I gotta do a good deed every decade or so, or the devil comes to take my soul
[15:29:19] * Bytram|away offers a fiddle to Runaway1956
[15:29:20] <Bytram|away> =)
[15:29:29] <Bytram|away> ok, really GTG. laters all!
[15:29:36] <Runaway1956> Bytram++
[15:29:36] <Bender> karma - bytram: 80
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[16:44:39] -!- everdred [everdred!~irssi@Soylent/Users/110/Everdred] has joined #Soylent
[16:44:52] <everdred> coffee++
[16:44:52] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2839
[16:48:30] <Deucalion> ~weather
[16:48:31] <exec> syntax: ~weather <location>
[16:48:37] <Deucalion> ~weather juggs
[16:48:39] <exec> 10London, UK - currently 78°F / 26°C, sunny, wind SW at 9 mph, humidity 41% - Tuesday clear (53°F:80°F / 12°C:27°C), Wednesday partly cloudy (54°F:77°F / 12°C:25°C), Thursday mostly sunny (54°F:75°F / 12°C:24°C), Friday mostly cloudy (56°F:73°F / 13°C:23°C)
[17:20:10] -!- mechanicjay has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[17:45:41] -!- mechanicjay [mechanicjay!~jhowe@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay] has joined #Soylent
[17:45:41] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mechanicjay] by Aphrodite
[21:22:54] <Deucalion> sun++
[21:22:54] <Bender> karma - sun: 1
[21:23:59] -!- Bender has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[21:24:13] -!- Bender [Bender!Bender@Soylent/BotArmy] has joined #Soylent
[21:56:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Zealand Judge to Allow Kim Dotcom to Livestream Extradition Appeal - http://sylnt.us - stickin-it-to-the-man
[22:00:38] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[22:01:00] <Deucalion> ~gday crutchy
[22:01:02] * exec single-handedly flicks a photograph of male tears at crutchy
[22:01:25] <Booga1> Oddly specific.
[22:01:54] <Deucalion> gets more odd by the day I swear
[22:05:08] <crutchy> ~g'day Deucalion o/
[22:05:10] * exec clumsily launches ciri's butthole of com objects toward Deucalion
[22:05:20] <crutchy> ~g'day Booga1
[22:05:22] * exec illegitimately twerks a cache of medium salsa for Booga1
[22:05:37] <crutchy> hmm. Booga1 definitely won that
[22:05:57] <crutchy> except for maybe the delivery method :|
[22:06:01] <mecctro> "butthole of com objects"
[22:06:17] <Booga1> I like medium salsa. :)
[22:06:32] <mecctro> medium salsa, so... 128 bit?
[22:06:36] <crutchy> how about twerked medium salsa?
[22:06:48] <Booga1> Depends on who's doing the twerking for me. ;)
[22:07:05] <crutchy> good point
[22:07:34] <mecctro> what would salsa look like twerking?
[22:07:59] <mecctro> 2 tomatoe chunks violently shaking with oil and vinegar dripping off them?
[22:09:48] * crutchy gotta go to melbourne tomorrow
[22:09:54] <crutchy> hopefully the weather is nice to me
[22:10:50] <Booga1> Hopefully. :)
[22:11:03] <Booga1> I still need to get to Australia at some point.
[22:11:06] <Deucalion> ~weather melbourne
[22:11:08] <exec> 10Melbourne VIC - currently 55°F / 13°C, mostly cloudy, wind N at 7 mph, humidity 94% - Wednesday scattered thunderstorms (47°F:64°F / 8°C:18°C), Thursday scattered showers (46°F:60°F / 8°C:16°C), Friday cloudy (49°F:59°F / 9°C:15°C), Saturday partly cloudy (46°F:57°F / 8°C:14°C)
[22:12:01] <Booga1> Quite cool for Australia. How is the rain down there? Is it light mists or torrential downpours?
[22:12:23] <Deucalion> wet.... like everywhere else?? :D
[22:12:37] <Deucalion> just odd in that it falls from the ground to the sky
[22:12:45] <Booga1> Heh, well, there's wet like Seattle, where you might as well not even bother with an umbrella.
[22:13:11] <Booga1> Then there's wet like Louisiana where the rain came down so hard it broke my windshield wipers off. :P
[22:13:49] <crutchy> its sunny outside at the moment, but we can get 4 seasons in a day
[22:13:53] <crutchy> multiple times :|
[22:15:04] <Booga1> Gotcha.
[22:27:24] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:27:42] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Ends Year-Long Mars Simulation - http://sylnt.us - looking-for-little-green-men