#Soylent | Logs for 2017-09-29
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[00:01:27] <Sulla> So posting karma bonus. Plus one for being logged in, plus an additional one for good karma? Telling it to post without karma bonus still gives me +1. How do I get +0
[01:06:54] <Bytram> Sulla: as far as I understand it, it's a longstanding bug in the code (I reported it to /. at least a decade ago)... if you view it as *yourself* (logged in as your nick) you see things one way... login as a different nick, or not even logged in, and you'll see things as they are. As best as I can tell, there's an extra point it *shows* you when you are logged in as part of your posting karma bonus, but that is not actually held in the
[01:06:54] <Bytram> database. That said, I could be mistaken, but that's the best I've been able to come up with as an understanding so far.
[01:15:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Sex Robot Display Model Molested So Much It Breaks Before Anyone Can Actually Use It - http://sylnt.us - what-a-doll!
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[01:41:28] <NCommander> oops
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[01:41:55] * NCommander forgot that migrated beryllium would bump IRC
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[01:56:37] * chromas suspects someone bumped a thing
[01:57:08] <Bytram> the button labelled 'Migrate site'
[01:57:28] <chromas> So are we on CentOS yet?
[01:57:42] <Bytram> looks like we only have 3 boxes left to go.
[01:58:00] <Bytram> beryllium *is* centos
[01:58:15] <Bytram> magnesium also got migrated tonight
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[01:58:51] <chromas> is beryllium on bluehost?
[01:58:54] <Bytram> still to go: lithium, boron, and sodium.
[01:59:02] <Bytram> nope -- all our boxes are on linode
[01:59:19] * chromas doesn't recall an upgrade notice
[01:59:46] <chromas> oh is this leftover from a few weeks ago?
[01:59:55] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:00:05] <Bytram> they are scheduling server moves over a period of time
[02:00:16] <Bytram> we had a couple more come up on rotation
[02:00:42] <Bytram> JC just hit the button to migrate them, when WE said, rather than waiting until 10PM tomorrow to start on their own.
[02:00:43] <chromas> were—were any of the servers flooded?
[02:00:45] <chromas> :D
[02:00:53] <Bytram> s/JC/NC/
[02:00:53] <upstart> <Bytram> NC just hit the button to migrate them, when WE said, rather than waiting until 10PM tomorrow to start on their own.
[02:01:09] <Bytram> in dallas? I don't think so.
[02:01:21] <chromas> I'm disappointed. Here I was thinking you guys got Jesus on staff
[02:01:39] <Bytram> on "staff" -- very punny
[02:02:04] <Bytram> how does it go? "Jesus saves, the rest of us rely on backups."
[02:02:12] <Bytram> anyway, break time.
[02:03:18] <chromas> Jesus saves because he still runs Vista
[02:28:00] <Sulla> Bytram: that works for me. I just didnt want to be lying in my sig saying that I post at 0
[02:30:53] <Bytram> Sulla: I'm a firm believer in: "Trust, but verify"... post a comment, and then logout and view what the score looks like as an AC.
[02:31:10] <Bytram> or, i suppose, just use a different browser in which you are not logged in... save idead.
[02:31:16] <Bytram> s/v/m/
[02:31:16] <upstart> <Bytram> or, i suppose, just use a different browser in which you are not logged in... same idead.
[02:31:25] <Bytram> s/ead/ea/
[02:31:25] <upstart> <Bytram> or, i suppose, just use a different browser in which you are not logged in... save idea.
[02:31:30] <Bytram> lol
[02:31:38] <Bytram> s/save idead/ same idea/
[02:31:38] <upstart> <Bytram> lol
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[02:45:07] <Bytram> looks like we lost some of our bots with the migration
[02:45:39] <Bytram> cmn32480: the IRC server got migrated... exec seems to be pining for the fjiords atm
[02:46:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mystery Surrounds Metal Towers Popping Up In Tunnels and Bridges - http://sylnt.us - flashback?
[02:46:54] <chromas> HAARP screwing with the weather in our crossings
[02:57:30] <Bytram> not tp be confused with the wicked big cannons which could should objects to 100km altitude.
[03:01:30] <Bytram> ~g HARP
[03:02:24] <Bytram> #g HARP
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[03:14:48] <Sulla> Wish I wouldnt disconnect constantly on wifi
[03:15:12] <Sulla> Dont know why andchat hates wifi so much
[03:19:58] <chromas> Does your phone turn wifi off when the display goes off?
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[03:28:05] <Marius> No, I think the problem is defaulting wifi at all times, so any loss in wifi kicks overall connection
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[03:43:16] <Sulla> Just read an interesting article about schools trying to switch away from Dr. Seuss due to bias the author wrote into the books. Anyone else heard about this? Is this a "real issue" or more of hating Huck Finn because they never actually read it and assumed it was bad?
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[03:49:27] <Booga1> Well, if you take it at face value, he writes about being picky, lying, and domestic assault. (Green Eggs and Ham, And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street, and Hop On Pop)
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[03:50:44] <Booga1> As if any protrayal that isn't some preachy flyer that tells you not to do something automatically means it's encouraging whatever behavior discussed in the narrative.
[03:53:51] <Booga1> Though, I would think stories like "Sneeches" would resonate since that seems pretty clearly an anti-racism narrative with an undertone of anti-peer pressure.
[03:54:11] <Booga1> Maybe the books aren't "inclusive" enough for today's tastes?
[03:55:07] <Booga1> Some people will just look for something to be outraged about so they can be passionate about something other than daytime TV.
[03:59:57] <Sulla> Did some more reading, looks like before he wrote kids books he worked for the war department and department of ed doing propaganda videos/cartoons.
[04:00:16] <Sulla> Pretty far off from a twain
[04:13:36] <Booga1> Sure, but we don't toss out science when we find out the scientist was working with the government for a war effort. If we did that, we would have to toss out everything from Einstein, etc...
[04:17:52] <chromas> Soon…
[04:18:26] <chromas> Ya'know, science is just an artifact of white colonialism
[04:27:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Server Migration: beryllium and magnesium Completed; Last Up: sodium - http://sylnt.us - moving-right-along
[04:55:03] <Sulla> Agree, just interesting. A lot of it was villifying japanese and germans, which is par for the course in a time of war.
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[05:56:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Boeing Throws US$2 Million Behind Contest to Build Personal Flying Machine - http://sylnt.us - zoom!-zoom!-Whhirrrrrrr!-Oops!-Boom.
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[07:26:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Electric Roller Skates Fold Flat when Off the Feet - http://sylnt.us - 15-miles-downhill,-both-ways?
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[09:06:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Is Harvesting Energy from Evaporating Water a Serious Renewable Energy Prospect? - http://sylnt.us - Betteridges-asks-where-would-we-put-the-cables?
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[09:53:48] <SoyCow8303>
[09:56:26] <SoyCow8303> guys, if you don't stamp out the alt-n4zis and goobergunt starting to infest the board, you'll become as worthless as slashdot is now. sort it out.
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[10:37:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ikea Buys "Gig Economy" Company TaskRabbit - http://sylnt.us - "some-assembly-required"
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[12:05:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google/Levi's "Smart Jacket" Has a 10-Wash Limit - http://sylnt.us - nothing-up-my-sleeve...-oh,-wait.
[13:32:50] <pinchy> so was there a flood from /. when it was down the other day?
[13:36:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - MIT's Tiny "Superhero" Robot Dresses for the Job at Hand - http://sylnt.us - "outfits-sold-separately"
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[14:20:40] <Bytram> https://www.youtube.com
[14:20:42] <upstart> ^ 03Making Life Multiplanetary - YouTube
[14:20:50] <Bytram> !uid
[14:20:50] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 6726, owned by rylyeh
[14:20:54] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:20:54] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3674
[14:21:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> Today is National (or is it International) Coffee Day.
[14:21:19] <Bytram> !woop
[14:21:19] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[14:21:24] <Bytram> =)
[14:21:25] <AndyTheAbsurd> Yesterday was "Drink Beer Day" so I did.
[14:21:38] <Bytram> lol
[14:21:52] <Bytram> how's things with you? make it through the storm okay?
[14:22:08] * Bytram suspects there may have been some follow-on issues/problems
[14:23:41] <AndyTheAbsurd> yup, I made it through okay; the only lingering issues at this point is that the local governments are having trouble getting anyone with a claw truck to come pick up debris - apparently they're getting paid better further south, so they're concentrating there and working their way north.
[14:24:12] <Bytram> nod nod -- free market at work.
[14:24:38] <Bytram> If I had a claw truck, where would I go? Where I could get the best rate per hour. :/
[14:24:39] <AndyTheAbsurd> There were some earlier problems with local waterways flooding, including some concern that bridges carrying major roadways would end up below water level, but there never happened.
[14:24:49] <Bytram> oh, yay!
[14:25:10] <Bytram> closed bridges cause *huge* traffic issues.
[14:26:10] <Bytram> there's a draw bridge that periodically needs to open for about 10 minutes at a time to let ships pass... takes about 15-30 minutes for backed-up traffic to make it through and dissipate back through the rest of the streets.
[14:27:29] <Bytram> I'm just glad you made it through [relatively] unscathed! Hope things are back to normal soonest!
[14:28:32] <Bytram> and now I'm gonna watch Musk's presentation to the International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Adelaide, Australia, this morning.... biab (cf: https://www.youtube.com )
[14:28:33] <upstart> ^ 03Making Life Multiplanetary - YouTube
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[15:16:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - DirecTV Allows Some NFL Refunds After Anthem Controversy - http://sylnt.us - have-a-seat
[15:27:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - DirecTV Allows Some NFL Refunds After Anthem Controversy - http://sylnt.us - have-a-seat
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[16:24:07] <pinchy> https://mobile.twitter.com
[16:24:10] <upstart> ^ 03Twitter
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[16:46:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FAA Restricts Drone Operations Over 10 U.S. Landmarks - http://sylnt.us - droning-on-and-on
[18:25:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - EU Gives Facebook, Twitter Final Warning on Hate Speech - http://sylnt.us - you-don't-say
[19:55:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AirSwap Decentralized Currency Exchange Could Circumvent Chinese Cryptocurrency Ban - http://sylnt.us - you-take-my-air-i'll-take-yours
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[21:27:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Saudi Arabia Will Lift Ban on Women Drivers Next Year - http://sylnt.us - one-step-forward
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[21:57:30] <Sulla> Has DN made any demands or just a totally random spammer?
[22:13:50] <Deucalion> DN?
[22:13:56] <Deucalion> Sulla ^
[22:16:55] <Deucalion> Ohh I see... that DN.
[22:21:33] <Deucalion> As CEO of SN I have seen no demands nor have any been brought to my attention by other people, staffers or otherwise. Just a bored wastrel I guess, worthy of no attention, let the Spam mod serve its purpose.
[22:23:46] <Deucalion> Set your viewing or break through level to suit should you wish to not read the drivel (yes I know that doesn't resolve for non logged in users).
[22:26:33] <Sulla> Surf at -1 to see everything intentionally, was just wondering what the deal was.
[22:28:15] <boru> Got a spare box to run the comments through a snort filter, or is there some intermediary spam filter?
[22:32:17] <Deucalion> boru, on the whole we like to allow moderation to take care of shit rather than filter. That said, the floor may need to be dropped below -1 and presentation changed to suit. But we want to avoid the infinite negative floor to just not be another endless thumbs up / down comment fest vessel.
[22:33:06] <boru> Aye, fair enough.
[22:38:52] <Deucalion> I know TMB was looking at the DN issue and how to deal from a coding perpective last we talked. I personally don't think a systemic solution is the answer - it's akin to the IRC spam we endured recently - it becomes whack-a-mole and over even a short time the collateral damage hurts more the original problem.
[22:42:36] <Deucalion> I'd rather provide efficient tools for even non-logged in users to be able to just not see it if they choose.... which relies on the crap being -1 Spam by those with mod points. We can look to up Mod points for the duration or whatever but philosophically I'm against anything other than the comment crowd sorting their own shit out rather than site staff wading in to "moderate". That's far too open to abuse.
[22:43:51] <Deucalion> Not that anyone pays any attention to my philosophy :D
[22:45:51] <boru> It seems reasonable.
[22:47:18] <Deucalion> Of course I think so too. But rightly I am put back in my place with my opinions and the consensus wins the day. It works.
[22:47:35] <Deucalion> I am summon NCommander ^^
[22:47:58] <Deucalion> Thoughts on DN spam. My position above.
[22:49:05] <boru> Well, presumably the spam has heuristics, at least. Recent account registration, certain domains, subnets etc.
[22:54:15] <Deucalion> Do you mean the marking of a comment as -1 Spam ?
[22:54:57] <boru> Aye, but as an academic exercise, capturing that data for {analysis,fun}
[22:58:22] <Deucalion> AFAIK the -1 Spam is only applied by others using their Mod points to do so, no heuristics or automation from the serving side at all.
[22:59:21] <boru> Well, such data could be gathered offline. I'm only half volunteering. I just thought it'd be an interesting problem to solve for a few hours.
[22:59:46] <boru> I'm about to start my new job, so I expect I'll have few spare cycles for a month or two.
[23:04:08] <Deucalion> The way things are coded I'm not sure there is much to analyse.
[23:05:00] <boru> Account creation timestamp, account registration email, timestamp of spam posts, subnet the POST was from etc.
[23:05:53] <Deucalion> I'm not the person to talk with about it though... you need an NCommander or TheMightyBuzzard (once they recover from being a SoyCow).
[23:06:24] <Deucalion> Even if we had that kind of detail stored we'd not willingly release it.
[23:06:27] <boru> I think I talked to TMB about it before.
[23:06:35] <boru> Aye, figured.
[23:06:49] <Deucalion> These are AC spam... no account.
[23:07:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Tech is Helping Find Mexico Earthquake Victims Buried in Rubble - http://sylnt.us - almost-X-ray-glasses
[23:07:20] <boru> Ah, yes, of course.
[23:07:21] <NCommander> ??
[23:07:38] <Deucalion> Hi NCommander ^^ Dick Nigger spam
[23:08:18] <Deucalion> philosophy and my take above
[23:08:20] <NCommander> Deucalion, boru: so ACs get knocked down to -1 posting by default if they hit a karma floor of -25 based off downvotes.
[23:10:03] * chromas suggests -2 score that only spam modded posts can get
[23:10:13] <NCommander> chromas, Deucalion, boru: AC comment ban applied
[23:10:37] <NCommander> (can still post when logged in but AC comments are rejected from that IP/SUB now)
[23:10:53] <Deucalion> NCommander, that was not the idea. That whack a mole.
[23:11:02] <chromas> Can you make it a shadowban so they don't know?
[23:11:10] * chromas imagines tons of perl rewriting
[23:11:46] <Deucalion> Fuck off chromas. There will be no shadowban here it's unethical.
[23:11:56] <chromas> It's true though, that spammer's put in the effort to bypass the filter, so changing IPs wouldn't be too much for him
[23:12:01] <Sulla> I think only way would be to ban words, but that goes against muh freedom of speech
[23:12:05] <NCommander> Deucalion, give me a better idea on how to handle it.
[23:12:32] <NCommander> Spam mods will bottom out an ACs karma to -25 after three spam hits.
[23:12:35] <Sulla> Id far rather read it than have folks banned
[23:12:43] <boru> Give ACs captchas (sp?)?
[23:13:00] <Sulla> Oh hell no
[23:13:01] <boru> Merely a suggestion; I know full well what a pain in the arse they are.
[23:13:06] <Sulla> What is this, 4chan?
[23:13:08] <NCommander> boru, most captchas are easily crackable except Google's and Googles require we send the remote IP.
[23:13:15] <boru> Yuck.
[23:13:20] <boru> I wasn't aware.
[23:13:45] <NCommander> boru, I was going to implement reCAPTCHA on soylent for this reason, and that convinced me NOT to do that.
[23:13:48] <Deucalion> NCommander, give anon / non-signed in visitors away to filter out -1 and below moderated comments from view.
[23:14:00] <NCommander> Deucalion, default view should already do that
[23:14:15] <boru> Aye, good call.
[23:14:18] <NCommander> Deucalion, default is 0/2
[23:14:24] <Deucalion> I don;t want SN staff to be moderating.
[23:14:25] <NCommander> -1 shows up as "Comment below threshold"
[23:14:31] <boru> I think you should just dump HTTP and use NNTP.
[23:14:45] <chromas> does nntp have moderation?
[23:14:46] <boru> The web sucks.
[23:14:46] <NCommander> boru, I experimented with that awhile ago. Then we'd need cancelbots :)
[23:14:54] <NCommander> chromas, it's possible but a hack
[23:15:06] <chromas> sounds good
[23:15:10] <NCommander> You can delete posts via cancel messages, as well as require Approval signatures
[23:15:30] <NCommander> Most servers ignore cancels though except if its a signed message
[23:15:38] <boru> I wrote some INN scripts many moons ago to do something similar.
[23:15:52] <boru> But that wasn't for anonymous posts.
[23:18:08] <Deucalion> NCommander, to set my (and boru's) mind at rest - do we have any heuristic or pattern matched filters active to stop a "spam" comment as it is posted? I said not but I've been so fucking busy I have missed what if anything has change during this DN apparent crisis.
[23:18:49] <boru> My mind is at rest, I just thought it'd be fun to munge some data!
[23:18:52] <NCommander> Deucalion, there might be a few left, but a lot got chucked in the UTF-8 migration. We generally depend on human interaction.
[23:19:08] <chromas> There's a table o' regexes TMB was adding to for DN spam. I think it's part of the lameness filter
[23:19:09] <NCommander> Applying a techinical solution to human problems tend to fail miserably
[23:19:21] <Deucalion> Indeed
[23:20:02] <boru> I think I waffled to TMB about Bayesian filtering as a solution a month or so ago.
[23:21:39] <Deucalion> NCommander, Although applying a technical solution to allow humans to deal with problems caused by other humans does not fail. Which I feel is where we are with human only Moderation and view levels. There's always going to be shitpost no matter what, just gove people the tools to deal with it and step away.
[23:22:18] <boru> Crowdsourcing only works if your crowd is sensible. Humans have bias.
[23:22:50] <Deucalion> Depends on the size of the crowd. And where you select your crown from.
[23:22:51] <chromas> As long as they have the same bias I do, everything's fine :)
[23:23:42] <Deucalion> Crowdsourcing is great if your the one running off with the bag of money. Not so much for everyone else
[23:24:42] <Deucalion> Reminds me, I'm due a personal transportation hexacopter any day now..
[23:27:01] <boru> Hexacopter? No ambition. https://www.youtube.com
[23:27:02] <upstart> ^ 03chAIR -Manned multirotor Episode 20 -First Flight! Axel Borg - YouTube
[23:30:46] <boru> Better: https://www.youtube.com
[23:30:47] <upstart> ^ 03chAIR -Manned quadcopter Episode 26 -Holiday flight Axel Borg - YouTube
[23:33:53] <Deucalion> Who said I have ambition? My only ambition is to keep sucking air a while longer :D
[23:34:22] <Deucalion> Fuck others who project their ambitions.
[23:34:48] <boru> That was meant in jest..
[23:34:57] * chromas gets the lube
[23:36:26] <Deucalion> What you intending to do with that boy?
[23:36:57] <chromas> First, I gotta find someone with ambitions…
[23:38:52] <Deucalion> Then I wish you luck in these parts. Fair well and may good wind favour your travels beyond these shores on your quest.
[23:39:35] <Sulla> I cant imagine a way to block legitimate spam but not block "spam"
[23:42:18] <Sulla> Easier to just deal with it and downmod
[23:43:13] <Deucalion> Which is the route as a site we'd rather go.
[23:44:10] * Deucalion melds into the space time continuum once again... raises a feeble wavey hand