#soylent | Logs for 2018-04-30
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[00:09:33] * Deucalion yawns
[00:09:33] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into Deucalion's gaping mouth
[00:47:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - French Museum Discovers Half of its Collection Are Fakes - http://sylnt.us - punters-were-happy
[00:54:36] -!- Sulla [Sulla!~Sulla@zaloex-370-839-07-160.mycingular.net] has joined #soylent
[00:54:47] Sulla is now known as The
[00:54:53] The is now known as TheCount
[00:54:59] <TheCount> Eight! Ha ha ha ha
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[02:26:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Cancels Lunar Rover - http://sylnt.us - escape-from-the-return-to-the-moon
[02:28:19] <DuckDuckPenis> LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!
[02:32:24] <DuckDuckPenis> hello?
[02:32:25] <DuckDuckPenis> hi
[02:32:28] <DuckDuckPenis> wuz up
[02:32:30] <DuckDuckPenis> not much bro
[02:37:51] <chromas> What kind of meat? Spiral sausage?
[02:38:03] <DuckDuckPenis> Orc flesh
[02:38:22] <chromas> Is that sanitary?
[02:38:38] <DuckDuckPenis> i wipe with hobbit clothes
[02:39:22] <chromas> Speaking of hobbits, I wonder what happened to Hairyfeet
[02:42:24] <chromas> Drop everything! This is the most important news: https://www.theregister.co.uk
[02:42:24] <upstart> ^ 03NetHack to drop support for floppy disks, Amiga, 16-bit DOS and OS/2 • The Register
[02:43:12] <DuckDuckPenis> https://www.youtube.com
[02:43:14] <upstart> ^ 03The Shining Recut - YouTube
[02:43:45] <DuckDuckPenis> https://www.youtube.com
[02:43:46] <upstart> ^ 03Wonka: Drug Baron - YouTube
[02:43:54] <chromas> I hope they add unicode support so I can see 🐕 and 💀
[02:47:02] <DuckDuckPenis> chromas, you can see the 🐕 during the blinding white light then you see 💀 unless you surrender yourself to the almighty one
[02:47:42] <chromas> Who is the almighty one?
[02:47:57] <DuckDuckPenis> who is the creature in the light?
[02:48:41] <DuckDuckPenis> then your body parts are scanned YOU CAN FEEL IT!
[02:48:59] <DuckDuckPenis> and they assign (via the calling) a blue female to layer inside the body
[02:49:22] <DuckDuckPenis> but she is ANGRY
[02:49:24] <DuckDuckPenis> she is MEAN
[02:49:28] <DuckDuckPenis> and she must be expelled!
[02:51:51] <DuckDuckPenis> i have seen a hall of blue alien women, they were all confined to a bed, each of them salivating heavily and making sucking sounds
[03:02:12] <DuckDuckPenis> who is the jackass who keeps posting sick mini stories in comments
[03:02:52] <DuckDuckPenis> i mean, it always says comment is below whatever
[03:03:07] <DuckDuckPenis> but that just teases you to double click on it
[03:04:39] <DuckDuckPenis> Yub nub, eee chop yub nub,
[03:04:39] <DuckDuckPenis> toe meet toe pee chee keene, g'noop dock fling oh ah.
[03:22:08] <DuckDuckPenis> nobody around huh
[03:22:17] <DuckDuckPenis> ;_; makes me feel sad
[03:25:03] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[03:25:03] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
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[03:39:16] <chromas> Instead of spam, we need a -1, faggotry mod
[03:39:24] <chromas> for those stories
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[04:33:08] <TheCount> Chromas still around?
[04:33:19] <chromas> 1
[04:33:21] <chromas> 2
[04:33:22] <chromas> 3
[04:33:24] <chromas> hahaha!
[04:33:45] * chromas stole your line
[04:33:50] TheCount is now known as Sulla
[04:33:55] <Sulla> Wanna do a cigar exchange?
[04:34:05] <chromas> I don't have cigars
[04:34:22] <Sulla> Do you need an american cigar freedom pack
[04:34:38] <Sulla> By american I mean probably nicaraguan and dominican
[04:35:10] <Sulla> We have many cigars
[04:35:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Experimental Stacked Organic Solar Cell is 15% Efficient - http://sylnt.us - light-work
[04:36:12] <chromas> I don't actually smoke or know nuffin 'bout cigars.
[04:36:18] <Sulla> Lol uk makes you pay vat on gifts
[04:36:26] <Sulla> Fuckin europe
[04:39:49] <chromas> If I were to send something to Europe, I'd just label it as a refugee
[04:41:17] * chromas is watching Dark Matter
[04:41:59] <chromas> non star-trek/-wars space scifi
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[06:36:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - $150,000 Worth of Ethereum Stolen Via Attack on BGP and DNS - http://sylnt.us - the-internet-was-broken
[06:54:26] <boru> Ah, schadenfreude.
[07:21:05] <Sulla> Waiting for my coins to get stolen
[07:21:53] <Sulla> I threw 300 at coin a while ago in boredom and have traded it over time and more than doubled the starting amount of coin
[07:23:08] <FatPhil> ~weather
[07:23:09] <exec> 10Tallinn, Harju County, Estonia - currently 45°F / 7°C, cloudy, wind NE at 5 mph, humidity 91% - Monday partly cloudy (43°F:53°F / 6°C:12°C), Tuesday rain (43°F:54°F / 6°C:12°C), Wednesday rain (40°F:55°F / 4°C:13°C), Thursday mostly cloudy (44°F:58°F / 7°C:14°C)
[07:25:25] <FatPhil> Sulla: why wouldn't you pay VAT on gifts? What absurd system would tax you differently depending on what you're going to do with something?
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[08:35:24] <Sulla> FatPhil: I spent the majority of my years in Alaska. No sales, property, or income tax.
[08:39:51] <FatPhil> Sulla: So? Which bit of that explains why having different taxation level for different intended uses is a sensible thing?
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[08:47:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Proof Of Water Wires Motivated By A Biological Water Channel - http://sylnt.us - water-world
[08:54:50] <Sulla> I hate all taxes, so double taxation pisses me off more than anything else
[08:56:06] <Sulla> If I buy something and pay a vat on it and then give it to someone else they should get the benefit of me having already paid the tax
[08:59:45] <Ellenor> I do not hate taxes
[09:00:24] <Ellenor> However, double taxation pisses me off like some kind of death penalty
[09:06:41] <FatPhil> Sulla: ?!?!? they get the benefit of you buying it and paying VAT by them having the object in their posession.
[09:07:04] <FatPhil> What you seem to be saying is "I want a discount on stuff that I'll give away".
[09:07:32] <Ellenor> no FatPhil
[09:07:47] <Ellenor> he's saying he think vat double applies
[09:08:26] <FatPhil> How?
[09:09:06] <FatPhil> If the recipient were to have bought it himself, then VAT would have been paid. If it's bouight as a gift, VAT is paid. That is *the same tax amount*.
[09:09:17] <FatPhil> He wants a discount.
[09:09:28] <Ellenor> FatPhil: he's saying he's delusional
[09:09:32] <Ellenor> he is not saying he wants a discount
[09:10:46] <FatPhil> Well, he wants to pay less than the normal amount. I'd call that a discount, wouldn't you?
[09:12:16] <Ellenor> FatPhil: he is saying that he doesn't want the recipient of a gift to have to pay vAT
[09:12:40] <mythterj> I think he is saying something merely resold or gifted has no value added, and shouldn't be taxed.
[09:13:39] <Ellenor> false?
[09:13:51] <FatPhil> But recipients of gifts don't have to pay VAT, unless you're talking money-laundering levels of value.
[09:14:14] * Ellenor suplexes Sulla to the edge of a cliff and throws them off
[09:16:22] <FatPhil> I agree with the delusional conclusion, though.
[10:27:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - MSNBC Host Attributes Homophobic Blog Posts to Hacking, Internet Archive Responds - http://sylnt.us - the-internet-is-forever
[10:41:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:41:59] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4081
[11:04:17] * Ellenor suplexes Joy Ann Reid off a cliff
[11:22:04] <FatPhil> Joy-Ann Reid = Enjoy nadir (anagram)
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[11:36:25] <fyngyrz> Pretty sure they don't tax us because of "value added" - they just tax us because they can.
[11:37:24] <fyngyrz> We have money; they want money; they have the power - hence, taxes. They treat the job as a money-mining exercise, not a reasoned tithe on people for government services.
[11:37:45] <fyngyrz> not that I'm cynical or anything.
[11:38:01] <fungus> fyngyrz-> 04cough
[11:40:13] <FatPhil> yeah, VAT is just another sales tax.
[11:55:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Record Levels of Microplastics Found in Arctic Sea Ice - http://sylnt.us - plastic-sink
[12:11:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> i never understood the "value added" part to begin with. did someone actually try to make an argument that selling something added to its value?
[12:18:12] <FatPhil> they just want to draw attention away from the third word, as if to pretend it's not a tax. or at least not a tax like those /other/ taxes.
[12:18:23] <FatPhil> And of course, duty isn't a tax, of course not.
[12:18:32] <FatPhil> Nor is excise.
[12:18:39] <FatPhil> National Insurance, definitely not.
[12:20:07] <Ellenor> NI should just be rolled into tax
[12:20:16] <Ellenor> just roll it all up into one fat tax burrito
[12:20:30] <FatPhil> Agree. It kinda-is here.
[12:21:20] <FatPhil> Companies pay the social security contributions on top of your nominal wage, and then your income tax is taken out of your nominal wage.
[12:22:23] <Ellenor> that's a bit weird
[12:22:31] <Ellenor> why don't they just have the nominal wage be the net wage
[12:22:32] <FatPhil> So 131e in becomes "100e" wage, of which you receive 79e, govt getting 31e NI, and 21e income tax. As a single payment to the same board.
[12:22:42] <FatPhil> tradition
[12:23:29] <FatPhil> pretty much every country does it that way, many have an even more complicated system.
[12:24:25] <FatPhil> one could argue "why not call the 131e the nominal wage", and everything related to your wages comes out of your wages.
[12:24:31] <Ellenor> social insurance premiums, in my opinion, should be paid out of the gross wage, so technically it comes from the wage earner, but the wage earner should only ever know the net wage unless they are self-employed or a contractor
[12:26:38] <Ellenor> and the nominal wage should be the net wage, so the €79 is the nominal wage for non-contractors (but the €131, out of which you pay €52 is the nominal for SE/contractor) and on top of it the wagepayer pays a €52 social insurance premium
[12:27:28] <FatPhil> BUt all you're effectively doing is changing the labels you apply to things, it doesn't really change what they are.
[12:27:33] <Ellenor> Correct.
[12:27:47] <Ellenor> It may clear some confusion though
[12:27:59] <Ellenor> and the tax brackets would be set on the SE nominal (so the non-SE €79 would be taxed as €131) just to muddy the waters again :)
[12:28:52] <FatPhil> That's why I quite like our system - the company pays to have an employee expense, and the employee pays to have an income - everyone's taxed a bit to participate in the economy.
[12:32:34] <FatPhil> Part of the reason our system's sensible (employees pay the income tax), is because we have an equal rate of tax on all mechanisms for distribution - wages, dividends, capital gains, all identically taxed (which reduces loopholes massively).
[12:33:26] <Bytram> coffee++
[12:33:26] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4082
[12:33:26] <Bytram> coffee++
[12:33:26] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4083
[12:33:34] <Ellenor> greatness
[12:33:37] <Bytram> it's a two-cupper this morning
[12:33:47] <FatPhil> ooh, yeah, just bought a new coffee, need to try that out...
[12:33:50] <FatPhil> Bytram++
[12:33:50] <Bender> karma - bytram: 99
[12:34:04] * Bytram reads scrollback... just aminute
[12:34:09] <Ellenor> doublecupper++
[12:34:10] <Bender> karma - doublecupper: 1
[12:34:15] <Ellenor> coffee+
[12:34:17] <Ellenor> coffee++
[12:34:17] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4084
[12:36:23] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Proof of Water Wires Motivated by a Biological Water Channel - http://sylnt.us - water-world
[12:36:24] <FatPhil> Avengers: Infinity War = Wiry teen fan's a virgin (anagram)
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[12:38:49] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[12:39:27] <Bytram> chromas: ^^^ Looks like your bot is 'napping'
[12:43:54] <Bytram> #g NTLM
[12:43:54] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "In a Windows network, NT LAN Manager (NTLM) is a suite of Microsoft security protocols that provides authentication, integrity, and confidentiality to users. NTLM is the successor to the authentication protocol in Microsoft LAN Manager (LANMAN), an older Microsoft product. The NTLM protocol suite is implemented in a ..."
[12:51:24] <Bytram> break time
[12:57:44] <pinchy> muh ldap
[13:27:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Warning Signs for TSB's IT Meltdown were Clear a Year Ago - http://sylnt.us - clusterfuck++
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[14:47:58] <Sulla> Ellenor: If employees only know the net and not the gross than how do they know they are being pilfered by 30%?
[14:48:13] <Sulla> I actually prefer a vat to any other form of taxation
[14:48:22] <Ellenor> the fact that they know the net means they know what they're actually making
[14:48:47] <Sulla> But I dont like that in some use tax states if I gift someone something the state demands tax on the gift to
[14:50:08] <Sulla> I can see the benefit there as most people dont realize 20/hr is closer to 18/hr
[14:51:44] <Sulla> Always enraged when im going over my spreadsheet and see that year to date I have made ~60k but is really only 45
[14:57:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - T-Mobile and Sprint to Attempt Merger - http://sylnt.us - third-time's-the-charm?
[14:57:37] <Bytram> time for me to head to work... have a great day everyone!
[15:01:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyone else ever wonder why the hell things like telnet still need updates?
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[15:08:48] <boru> No, not when projects like debian exist.
[15:08:57] <boru> They're always patching things and breaking them.
[15:13:53] <FatPhil> Too true.
[15:14:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, new compiler major version quirks are one thing but once something is working bug-free and needs no additional features, why does it still get fucked with?
[15:16:43] <FatPhil> Anyone watch the 20-minute long Michelle Wolf screach at the WHCD?
[15:20:31] <FatPhil> Wasn't any worse than any previous ones, dunno why the media's getting their knickers in a collective twist.
[15:21:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw. i don't watch politics.
[15:22:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> really, i only watch fiction streamed from my media server and, very rarely, the weather
[15:23:18] <FatPhil> It was more standup than politics, it's just that the targets happened to have politics as a side-job to accompany whatever bollocks was having the piss taken out of it.
[15:24:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus, i gave up entirely on the WHCD during obama's first year when it became clear that their extremely obvious sympathies were of more concern to them than little things like making the powerful accountable.
[15:25:24] <FatPhil> the powerful just need to sideline a little cut for others in power in order to make sure that they remain non-accountable.
[15:25:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> well not so much clear as clear beyond my ability to temporarily suspend my disbelief
[15:26:30] <FatPhil> Yeah, I'm not sure why the MSM had such a ladyboner for Obama. He was one of the most conservative presidents in history. (BUt sometimes it is better to be boring than stupid)
[15:27:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> skin color and virtue signaling
[15:27:18] <FatPhil> Thing he's most well known for doing - squeezing Romneycare through congress.
[15:27:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> no other reason
[15:27:49] <FatPhil> Here's my entire counter-argument:
[15:28:00] <FatPhil> That's it, I'm done.
[15:30:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally, i'd like to see the 2020 election go to a pet rock. doing nothing at all would be better than most presidents manage.
[15:39:41] * TheMightyBuzzard fucks off to other bidness
[15:42:01] <FatPhil> ditto, hosting a beer tasting this evening, and the flat's a fucking tip.
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[16:29:43] <pinchy> messed up this place is
[16:37:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Life in (Virtual) Pit Lane: The War Stories of Video Game Car Design - http://sylnt.us - Vrooom!-Vrooom!
[16:57:48] <pinchy> we need to spend more on schools
[16:57:50] <pinchy> moar m0ney
[17:03:18] <Sulla> I dont mind spending more on schools if it goes for non-administration
[17:03:30] <Sulla> Sadly in my area at least that seems an impossible request
[17:04:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> screw schools. we need to bring back apprenticeship.
[17:05:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> we barely do any of it anymore. why should electricians be required to apprentice but there isn't even a path for pole-dancers to do so?
[17:06:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> hookers, for instance, could definitely use an apprenticeship program. it'd be nice to know if the chick you're paying is going to know her way around playing the skin flute before you commit to her.
[17:10:33] * TheMightyBuzzard fucks back off
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[17:22:53] <pinchy> wizard+apprentice
[17:23:00] <pinchy> gotta find some wizards first
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[17:59:14] <SoyCow8317> #submit https://threatpost.com
[17:59:16] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[17:59:41] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[17:59:46] <SoyCow8317> #submit https://www.securityweek.com
[17:59:47] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[18:00:12] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
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[18:05:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Blue Origin Conducts its First Successful Suborbital Test Flight and Landing of 2018 - http://sylnt.us
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[19:26:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - South Korea to Remove Loudspeakers at Border - http://sylnt.us - it's-all-gone-quiet
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[21:06:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter Begins Mapping the Atmosphere of Mars - http://sylnt.us - sniff-up
[22:36:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - U.S. Military Develops Microwave Weapon - http://sylnt.us