#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-07

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[00:09:43] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[00:17:43] <bacterium> i don't think reincarnation is a matter of choice AzumaHazuki, but perhaps you willluck out and become one of them artificially intelligent tactical nukes or suicide booths
[00:18:33] <AzumaHazuki> there is an element of choice if you've learned most or all of the lessons you need to, as I understand it
[00:19:07] <AzumaHazuki> and i've been feeling for a very long time like there's not much left to learn. this all feels like some hackneyed old movie script i'm just going through the motions on. very little people do surprises me any longer
[00:24:23] <bacterium> you should submit your resume to the universal executive and see if you can get hired as the new staff writer
[00:24:36] <bacterium> that way you can start weaving in some plot twists
[00:27:25] <AzumaHazuki> i'd really rather not. i'm ready to begin the next leg of the journey back to the Source or God or the Absolute or whatever you want to call it
[00:32:42] <bacterium> according to epistemon, the afterlife is a comically reversed version of your earthly life, so you are stuck with humans
[00:33:07] <AzumaHazuki> i wouldn't mind the funny version. the real thing seems to be on the tragic side
[00:34:00] <bacterium> yeah, so if your earthly lot is sadness and tragedy, then in the next life it's going to be all shits and giggles
[00:39:39] <AzumaHazuki> i'd rather escape this idiocy entirely. there's very little left for me to learn as far as the big lessons go.
[00:40:03] <AzumaHazuki> the only remaining one is how to trust others, i think, and that needs a place of relative safety to do it from, which appears to be being built now
[00:53:36] <Runaway1956> there's very little left for me to learn
[00:53:43] <Runaway1956> now THAT is hubris
[00:57:35] <Runaway1956> HAH!! I see why all the problems in Egypt now! They're moving mummies around, and they don't want to go!
[01:22:56] <bacterium> it all adds up, AzumaHazuki, if you are a jaded know-it-all in this life, then you are destined to be a giddy know-nothing sitcom writer in the next one
[01:24:11] <AzumaHazuki> that's not how it works. my intention is to continue my journey back to the source in spirit form. i'll help others along the way if they've gotten stalled, but i'm not taking flesh again
[01:26:14] <Bytram> =g learning proper manners
[01:26:15] <systemd> https://www.thespruce.com - Proper Etiquette for All Occasions
[01:26:55] <bacterium> you say it now, but perhaps true re-incarnation is unavoidable. the universe may pass through a scale-invariant phase, per penrose, and you will walk once again, quantum-entangled with your current self
[01:34:39] <AzumaHazuki> if so, there's nothing i can do about it
[01:34:45] <AzumaHazuki> and with that, time for work
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[01:38:13] <Runaway1956> Chasing down a phantom IP address on the network, turns out to be the Vizio Smart TV. I had it blocked, but the ISP brought me a new modem, and I forgot all about blocking iot crap until now
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[01:39:09] <Runaway1956> Running: Linux 3.X
[01:39:09] <Runaway1956> OS CPE: cpe:/o:linux:linux_kernel:3
[01:39:09] <Runaway1956> OS details: Linux 3.2 - 3.16
[01:39:09] <Runaway1956> Network Distance: 1 hop
[01:39:50] <Runaway1956> You would think that a device purchased in the last 3 years or so would be running Linux 4.something
[01:55:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Justice Clarence Thomas Suggests US Should Regulate Twitter and Facebook - https://sylnt.us - solo-opinion
[02:02:37] <c0lo> They used a stable version of the kernel of the time. https://launchpad.net - last release in 2016
[02:02:40] <systemd> ^ 03Series 3.14 : Linux
[02:03:00] <c0lo> See also CentOS.
[02:22:42] * TheMightyBuzzard cackles
[02:22:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> this should be fun: https://www.rt.com
[02:22:52] <systemd> ^ 03Republican-linked transgender for California? Caitlyn Jenner reportedly considers running for governor
[02:26:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> "She's a stunning and brave fascist nazi!"
[02:33:34] <bacterium> wouldn't be the first time ken and barbie had to be recalled
[02:34:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> they can't be trans anyway, no bits to change
[02:36:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> and one more before bed. it won't make the news even here but: https://notthebee.com
[02:37:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake systemd
[02:37:02] * MrPlow smakes systemd upside the head with a caffeinated foosh
[02:37:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooooh... caffeinated foosh...
[02:42:46] <Bytram> prelude to your going fooshing?
[03:31:05] <bacterium> https://soylentnews.org
[03:31:06] <systemd> ^ 03IBM Bets Homomorphic Encryption is Ready to Deliver Stronger Data Security for Early Adopters - SoylentNews
[03:34:03] <bacterium> let me see if i can get this right...
[03:34:04] <bacterium> so i can encrypt my data, send it over a pipe, have it do the
[03:34:09] <bacterium> homomorphic encrypted computation, which must be so
[03:34:14] <bacterium> mips-expensive, it is too depressing to cite, then transfer data
[03:34:21] <bacterium> back to me, decrypt it, and send ibm a pickup truck full of cash
[03:34:30] <bacterium> or i can just compute on my hardware
[03:34:39] <bacterium> much weaker, general purpose hardware, with no transmitting, no encrypting, no decrypting. ever.
[03:34:46] <bacterium> that's a real noodle-scratcher
[03:37:32] <bacterium> next issue: why homomorphic encryption has 2 be adopted worldwide, and no serious commercial enterprize can afford not to use it
[04:13:19] <Bytram> bacterium: I'm a researcher conducting a trial on, say, a potential medication. I collect gobs of personal data to help in assessing efficacy for various demographics, age groups, etc. etc.
[04:14:07] <Bytram> Per HIPPA, there are restrictions on my releasing that information.
[04:15:09] <Bytram> with this tech, an outside organization can be provided data in such a way that they can perform analyses on it, without violating patient confidentiality.
[04:15:49] <Bytram> that access to the data can be sold ($).
[04:16:29] <Bytram> The original researchers can monetize their data and also protect participant's anonymity.
[04:17:04] <Bytram> I'm NOT saying it's all sunshine and rainbows, mind.
[04:18:41] <Bytram> I can easily concoct sample data that would reveal edge cases in data handling abilities, what the error responses are, and then construct queries to de-anonyminize at least parts of the data.
[04:20:32] <Bytram> E.g. return a list of all IDs
[04:21:07] <bacterium> well, you are describing a realistic scenario, but here being gouged by ibm is worth it because the said "researcher" will in turn swindle some simpletons
[04:22:03] <Bytram> Now, return a list of all IDs where (100 million)*(AgeInYears) > 4 billion
[04:22:55] <Bytram> thereby investiating what happens when one exceeds a 32-bit integer
[04:24:39] <Bytram> Unless, they propose to perform infinite precision calculation? Now you are talking incredible amounts of overhead, above and beyond that of the originally intended analysis.
[04:25:48] * bacterium metabolizes a C₂₁H₃₀O₂ molecule
[04:26:14] <Bytram> I guess so long as the profit > expense of doing the computes, someone will do it... and if IBM can be the low-cost compute-provider or data transporter or manipulator or database or in some way become art of the transaction, all the better
[04:26:44] <Bytram> Just one?
[04:27:15] <bacterium> ikr? if the software is not re-writted every two or so years to run twice as slow, how will we keep up with teh moore's law?
[04:27:21] <bacterium> :D Bytram
[04:27:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - LG to Close Mobile Phone Business Worldwide - https://sylnt.us - not-so-Lucky-any-more
[04:27:35] <Bytram> Either that's a BIG molecule, you're a tiny bacterium, or you're exercising great restraint? ;)
[04:28:18] <Bytram> what I do know, is it's getting late and I hear my bed calling my name
[04:28:33] <Bytram> bacterium: nice chatting with you!
[04:28:46] <Bytram> Have a great night everybody!
[04:29:19] <bacterium> o/
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[06:04:39] <chromas> #smake Bytram
[06:04:39] * MrPlow smakes Bytram upside the head with yo mama's stank
[06:04:52] <chromas> s/P/A/2
[06:41:40] <FatPhil> eyes squiffy this early in the morning. I thought you were calling me, or someone, a SPAZ.
[06:43:00] <FatPhil> I was once (1995?) called a "linux spazza", and since then, the name stuck. All my machines are called something-spaz.
[06:46:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Crew-1 Dragon Relocates at ISS to Make Way for Cargo Dragon - https://sylnt.us - enter-the-dragon
[06:56:05] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[06:56:07] <systemd> ^ 03The Time Machine (2002)
[06:56:25] <chromas> S'posed to be based on the HG Wells book but I don't remember it starting off with murders
[06:56:59] <chromas> but then again, seems like it wasn't from the time traveller's perspective either
[06:58:48] <chromas> HG Wells exists in the movie. Hm.
[07:45:30] <chromas> ooh original robocop (the good one) is on the youtubes as well
[08:52:11] <FatPhil> I've got one thing to say to the guy who made the remake... "you're fired".
[09:28:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Loot Boxes Too Similar to “Problem Gambling” to Avoid Regulation, Report Says - https://sylnt.us - just-one-more
[11:37:44] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[11:57:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Most Loved Programming Language Rust Sparks Privacy Concerns - https://sylnt.us
[12:06:43] <c0lo> =submit https://www.dawn.com
[12:06:46] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Peshawar UET Develops Low-cost Solar Panels" (19p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:09:57] <c0lo> =submit https://spectrum.ieee.org
[12:09:59] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Full Page Reload" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:12:36] <inz> Web is hard.
[12:13:49] <Bytram> IEEE seems to require gobs of auxiliary domains/scripts
[12:22:57] <c0lo> that's a spectrum of scripts, yea?
[12:23:54] <Bytram> yep, deep infrared up thru ultraviolet
[12:24:37] <c0lo> https://edition.cnn.com
[12:24:40] <systemd> ^ 03Police use-of-force instructor says Derek Chauvin's kneeling is not a trained restraint
[12:25:19] * AzumaHazuki finds it very interesting that Hallow and Runaway are coming down on the right side of this one...
[12:25:56] <FatPhil> Just reading khallow's journal now.
[12:25:59] <AzumaHazuki> of course it's got to be for entirely selfish reasons (two parts "one of these days the cops will come for me" and one part "fuck authority I'm a rebel without a clue") but still
[12:27:06] <FatPhil> I can't say I'm too surprised. It's his economics I disagree with more than anything else.
[12:28:27] <AzumaHazuki> do you see the larger pattern though? it's all predicated on complete selfishness. no doubt this is someone who thinks he's the archetypical ubermensch, the very model of the "rational actor"
[12:28:42] <AzumaHazuki> he's going to be correct now and then but solely in the way a stopped clock is
[12:31:05] <FatPhil> Speculation is easy and cheap. I see him more as an idealist, believe it or not.
[12:31:43] <FatPhil> But we can definitely agree on "rational actor" completely.
[12:32:28] <AzumaHazuki> idealist in the sense of "actor-based community"
[12:32:37] <AzumaHazuki> which is where the fundamental contradiction is
[12:41:17] <c0lo> Gossip https://thehill.com
[12:41:18] <systemd> ^ 03Trump falls nearly 300 spots on Forbes billionaires list
[12:44:00] <c0lo> =submit google-ai-again https://www.reuters.com
[12:44:03] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Google AI Scientist Bengio Resigns After Colleagues' Firings: Email" (20p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:47:35] <c0lo> =submit just in case you forgot your phone number https://www.troyhunt.com
[12:47:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03The Facebook Phone Numbers are Now Searchable in Have I Been Pwned" (24p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:48:51] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[12:48:53] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Your 'Smart Home' is Watching – and Possibly Sharing Your Data With the Police" (12p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:52:05] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[12:52:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> any social system NOT designed around selfishness is in for a very rude awakening when it meets reality
[12:54:10] <Bytram> an awareness of people's propensity for selfishness, sure; but I see no need to have it advocate for selfishness. cf: self-sacrifices for the greater good.
[12:54:32] <Bytram> s/greater/common/
[12:54:32] <SedBot> <Bytram> an awareness of people's propensity for selfishness, sure; but I see no need to have it advocate for selfishness. cf: self-sacrifices for the common good.
[12:54:59] <Bytram> cf tyranny of the commons
[12:55:06] <FatPhil> ^^^ this
[12:55:39] <FatPhil> tragedy?
[12:56:54] <Bytram> Just because, in this particular instance, it is to my personal advantage to do something... what if everyone were to take the same position in their parallel situation? Is it okay to steal if I know I'd never get caught?
[12:57:47] <FatPhil> If you go into it deeply enough, it dovetails with Braess's paradox, which is a very intersting line of discussion that could take up many hours round a campfire or fireplace.
[12:58:01] <FatPhil> =w Braess's Paradox
[12:58:02] <systemd> Braess's paradox is the observation that adding one or more roads to a road network can slow down overall traffic flow through it. The paradox was postulated - https://en.wikipedia.org's_paradox
[12:58:35] <Bytram> Or, for another example, I see someone struggling. Recalling the times when I was struggling and someone's reaching out and offering me a hand helped me to get through it, I shoose to help other people who are struggling, such as I am able.
[12:58:57] <FatPhil> basically, non-optimality of equilibria.
[12:59:59] <Bytram> Note: help !== give or do FOR them; some things I help best when I do the least for the other... they learn from the struggle in figuring out how to do it themselves.'
[13:00:51] <FatPhil> Bytram: that's particularly useful in traffic situations. Most people don't expect politeness from drivers, so they really notice it when someone is polite to them. Which can put them in a better mood, make them less competitive, and be more inclined to be polite to other drivers. It can have positive feedback.
[13:02:26] <Bytram> *teach* a man to fish... knowing the general idea of how does not necessarily give me proficiency in the nuances of how to 'jigger' a line as I real in a lure to get a fish's attention, or how to set the hook so they do not slip free when reeling them in.
[13:02:57] <Bytram> FatPhil++ Excellent analogy!
[13:02:57] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 113
[13:14:33] <c0lo> =submit WTF? https://www.vanityfair.com
[13:14:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03“We are Hoarding”: Why the U.S. Still Can’t Donate COVID-19 Vaccines to Countries in Need" (46p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[13:17:11] <c0lo> https://news.gallup.com
[13:17:13] <systemd> ^ 03Quarterly Gap in Party Affiliation Largest Since 2012
[13:20:13] <c0lo> Oh the fucking commie! https://www.businessinsider.com
[13:20:14] <systemd> ^ 03Jeff Bezos: Amazon Supports Tax Hike Under Biden Infrastructure Plan
[13:24:21] <Bytram> "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Mayhaps he thinks the low overhead of his organization is better able to succeed vs competitors' ability to deal with higher taxes. They'll be unable to survive the extra competitive pressure and thus their clients will migrate to Amazon?
[13:30:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, advocate? no. when designing any social system you'd better account for every last person in it acting selfishly though. everything else eventually fails, even on a small scale.
[13:32:22] <FatPhil> tax avoiders always support tax hikes.
[13:32:51] <Bytram> When designing *any* system, had better count on any part of it failing and take steps to mitigate *that* failure, as well as any *other* failures that may precipitate from it.
[13:33:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> ed zackery.
[13:35:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is why no system that requires its members to be, and remain, altruistic is reliable. including SN here.
[13:35:41] <Bytram> The fact that so few people actually consider such possibilities, and even those who do consider it are unable/unwilling to do it well provided me with a long career, personally, and also has given rise to the whole mess of attacks (in oh so many forms) on the internet.
[13:37:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, braless paradox? never heard em called "dox" before. that an estonia thing?
[13:37:05] <Bytram> OTOH, if the perceived penalties for failing to conform with those expected norms are sufficient, people will tend to go along with them through nothing more than vested self interest.
[13:37:19] <FatPhil> dox out for the lads!
[13:37:30] <FatPhil> Maybe you know them as "puppies"?
[13:37:59] * TheMightyBuzzard likes dags
[13:38:13] * TheMightyBuzzard likes caravans more
[13:38:30] <FatPhil> Erm, dags = poop
[13:38:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt i like dags
[13:38:42] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Snatch, Yeah.... I Like Dogs
[13:40:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, norms aren't necessarily productive. we've got some quite destructive norms going on here at the moment, fer instance.
[13:41:07] <Bytram> So, that suggests to me the perceived consequences are insufficient to persuade a change
[13:41:36] <Bytram> (/me is not arguing with the point about destructive norms existing!)
[13:41:51] <c0lo> TMB, "when designing any social system you'd better account for every last person in it acting selfishly though." Is "paying taxes to support public education is in my very best interest" included in your selfishness definition?
[13:41:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, inability to perceive the consequences accurately.
[13:42:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, why, yes, it is.
[13:42:23] <Bytram> Or, the inability to perceive the benefits of conforming to such norms.
[13:43:09] <c0lo> TMB, then it's not selfishness it's utilitarianism
[13:43:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> more people can't afford private schooling for their kids than can, so it's in their best interest to force other people to pay for their children's education.
[13:43:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> utilitarianism is selfish.
[13:44:23] <Bytram> c0lo: It's in my best interest, too. I want an intelligent and informed electorate who can look past the rhetoric and flimflammery that would allow people to gt elected who are only looking out for themselves (for example)
[13:44:45] <c0lo> Meh, twisting meanings is what 1984 suggested as a mean to an end.
[13:44:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, stop doing it then
[13:44:59] <requerdanos> So, in your experience, public education produces an intelligent and informed electorate sensitive to rhetoric and flimflammery?
[13:45:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, +1 Touche
[13:45:51] <c0lo> bytram, is more than that - at the survival level, an educated person is less likely to become violent.
[13:46:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, a conditioned person is less likely to become violent
[13:46:41] <Bytram> Witness some of (possibly) the well-meaning, but lacking-in-substance "arguments" put forth on SoylentNews. cf: ignorant, uneducated, mis-informed, etc.
[13:47:33] <Bytram> does not education encourage conditioning to a perceived better circumstance?
[13:47:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope.
[13:48:17] <Bytram> yep. (two can play that game)
[13:48:33] <c0lo> TMB, you you don't like conditioned persons, there are a host of countries in Africa just to your taste.
[13:48:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> education simply informs people and lets them decide what is good and what is not. the word you're looking for is indoctrination.
[13:48:48] <c0lo> s/you you/if you/
[13:48:48] <SedBot> <c0lo> TMB, if you don't like conditioned persons, there are a host of countries in Africa just to your taste.
[13:49:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you're kidding, right? those are some of the most conditioned places around. violence is an excellent conditioner.
[13:49:54] * TheMightyBuzzard beats c0lo's head with a stick
[13:49:55] <c0lo> TMB, education is not informing, education is forming. Like, forming critical thinking abilities.
[13:50:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> see how shiny your hair got?
[13:51:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, oh, good, so we don't have any educational institutions left in the US and we can sue the ones calling themselves such for fraud.
[13:51:53] * c0lo looking to TMB fucking with word meanings, thinking he's smart
[13:52:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you're teaching critical thinking and turning out cookie-cutter drones who all believe the same thing, you're doing a very poor job of it
[13:52:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> at any given time, quite a lot of your students should be accusing you of being full of shit.
[13:52:59] <Bytram> no, that is NOT the word I am looking for. I am suggesting an educated and discerning person is better able to sift the wheat from the chaff and not succumb to temptations phone!
[13:53:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> if they're not, you've failed at teaching critical thinking
[13:53:28] <c0lo> TMB, you do what yoy think is an intelligent thing to do. If you think suing educational institutions instead of reforming them, by all means, the reality will get its own stick for your head.
[13:54:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, um, that's reality's standard mode of operations. if you're not aware of that by now it's because it's been saving up quite a lot of whacks for one go.
[13:54:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, not everyone agrees on what is wheat and what is chaff. good does not mean the same thing to everyone.
[13:56:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i, for instance, happen to quite enjoy pineapple on pizza
[13:56:31] * c0lo watching TMB indulging in redundundancy
[13:57:01] <requerdanos> Eating chaff on pizza isn't the same as selecting against it for societal benefit.
[13:57:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, it's not chaff to me, i'm selecting for wheat. we don't agree on what wheat is though.
[13:58:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> and then you have those anti-gluten freaks on top of it all
[13:58:25] <c0lo> right, TMB, wheat is pineapple.
[13:58:27] <requerdanos> Eating "wheat" on pizza isn't the same as selecting for it in the interest of societal benefit.
[13:59:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, learn2metaphor
[13:59:20] <requerdanos> I mean, people eat hair, toilet paper, rabbit droppings, hey to each his own. We're talking about interactions within society, not eating disorders. Or mostly, anyway.
[13:59:37] <c0lo> TMB, learn2getmetaphors
[14:00:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, right. and there are a lot of folks out there to whom the things i want to see in a society are anathema. and vice versa.
[14:01:11] <requerdanos> If they'd only take the world's smallest political quiz, they'd see that they really, to quite a degree, agree.
[14:01:45] * c0lo watching TMB playing with the meaning of "society" w/o realizing it
[14:02:07] * TheMightyBuzzard hands c0lo a dictionary
[14:02:39] * c0lo invites tmb to read it and stick to it
[14:03:30] * TheMightyBuzzard invites c0lo to stop misusing the word "invites"
[14:04:53] <Bytram> what's a metaphor? n. Something to keep cows in.
[14:05:07] * TheMightyBuzzard nods to Bytram
[14:05:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> how are a yard and a pound alike? they're both places to keep dogs.
[14:07:30] <Bytram> agreed on discernement of wheet v chaff. hence: education AND also listening to what the other has to say, because I might be the one mis-informed or missing an important factor. I have a relative who cannot eat wheat. That's a real challenge in today's world. So, for him, his concept of wheat is that is well nigh equivalent to chaff!
[14:07:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, they really, really don't. you have two primary camps. one of them wants to be adults and choose their own destiny. the other wants to remain children and be taken care of by an authoritative parent figure.
[14:07:46] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++ ROFL!!
[14:07:46] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 429
[14:08:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, being a disagreeable bastard by default but having an open mind and ears, yep.
[14:08:54] <Bytram> "You can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar."
[14:08:55] * TheMightyBuzzard stole that joke from Alf
[14:09:24] <Bytram> "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."
[14:10:45] * c0lo decides that he had enough of TMB's 'ctellectual wanking, watching porn is more rewarding
[14:10:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> wrong flavor of disagreeable. the flavor i was using was defaulting to taking the contrary position for debugging purposes. if you can't support a position against adversity, i'm certainly not adding it to my collection of positions.
[14:11:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, duh. porn has boobs.
[14:11:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> 8008135++
[14:11:28] <Bender> karma - 8008135: 155
[14:11:49] <Bytram> Attraction rather than promotion. If my position really is that much better, than my living that viewpoint should be sufficient. The benefits of my doing so generally bears much more weight than YELLING that my way is better and bludgeoning people to my point of view.
[14:12:27] <Bytram> s/that/then/
[14:12:27] <SedBot> <Bytram> Attraction rather than promotion. If my position really is then much better, than my living that viewpoint should be sufficient. The benefits of my doing so generally bears much more weight than YELLING that my way is better and bludgeoning people to my point of view.
[14:12:38] <Bytram> s/than/then/
[14:12:38] <SedBot> <Bytram> Attraction rather then promotion. If my position really is that much better, than my living that viewpoint should be sufficient. The benefits of my doing so generally bears much more weight than YELLING that my way is better and bludgeoning people to my point of view.
[14:12:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope. you could be unaccountably lucky.
[14:13:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> beliefs need QA, same as code.
[14:13:11] <Bytram> What did I say that refutes that position?
[14:13:23] <Bytram> "if"
[14:13:45] <Bytram> anything with a false premise necessarily has a true conclusion.
[14:14:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> living that viewpoint while unaccountably lucky does not mean that position is not catastrophically foolish
[14:14:21] <requerdanos> "I always sleep in the road, and nothing's happened to me yet"
[14:14:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[14:14:59] * Bytram might have got that wording messed up a bit... /me is drawing on a long-ago class in "Logic and Argument"
[14:15:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was going to go with a tiger-protecting ball cap but same thing.
[14:15:21] <bacterium> :)
[14:15:28] <bacterium> coffee++
[14:15:28] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5526
[14:15:34] <Bytram> Calvin could maybe go for one of those balls
[14:16:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> best game ever.
[14:17:17] <FatPhil> Bytram - logic fail, alas. Any false conclusion can be supported by a false premise. However, it doesn't make the conclusion true.
[14:18:02] <Bytram> The *appearance* of a path being the one to take as a general rule does not, necessarily support that conclusion. Always keep an open mind. Question conclusions. Be open to (possibly very deep) surprises arising from introspection. And, most importantly, be willing to change based on what has been learned.
[14:18:30] <Bytram> FatPhil: I stand (sit) corrected. Hence my qualification. IIRC
[14:18:36] <FatPhil> yup
[14:19:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is why i argue about everything. i want to be as right as possible and the quickest way to manage that is to crowdsource the effort.
[14:19:52] <Bytram> FatPhil: "If I had a million dollars, I'd give it all to you." But, since I do not have a million dollars... I think that was the line of thinking I was pursuing. Do you know what I'm talking about?
[14:19:53] * TheMightyBuzzard is a distributed philosopher
[14:20:14] <Bytram> =yt parts are parts wendy's
[14:20:15] <systemd> https://youtube.com - HYSTERICAL 80's Wendy's Commercial: "Parts is Parts" (30; 234,789 views; 👍508 👎14)
[14:20:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, if i had a million dollars, i'd buy you a monkey. haven't you always wanted a monkey?
[14:20:38] <FatPhil> that's "acuously true". All the times the left hand has been satisfied, the right hand followed.
[14:20:47] <FatPhil> s/"a/"va/
[14:20:47] <SedBot> <FatPhil> that's "vacuously true". All the times the left hand has been satisfied, the right hand followed.
[14:20:57] <Bytram> k, tx for the edit!
[14:21:25] <Bytram> But, if the LFS is never satisfied... ??
[14:21:35] <FatPhil> TMB: I'm thinking of "adopting" one via a reputable charity.
[14:21:39] <Bytram> *LHS (Left Hand Side)
[14:22:06] <FatPhil> Bytram: it remains a vacuously true statement.
[14:22:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt if i had a million dollars
[14:22:19] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Barenaked Ladies - If I Had a Million Dollars (BEST Lyrics Video!)
[14:22:27] <Bytram> =w vacuously true
[14:22:27] <systemd> This statement is true non-vacuously (since some integers are indeed greater than 5), but some of its implications are only vacuously true: for example, when - https://en.wikipedia.org
[14:23:16] <FatPhil> All predicates are true for all members of the empty set.
[14:23:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> nobody trying to use LFS is ever satisfied (Linux From Scratch)
[14:24:20] <bacterium> a logician enters an empty room and says: "all the furniture here is perfectly color-matched"
[14:24:43] <FatPhil> I would say that, I'm colour-blind!
[14:24:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, i wanna bobcat. like a cat cat except can kick the shit out of its primary enemies: dogs and cars
[14:25:05] <Bytram> FatPhil: s/u//
[14:25:05] <SedBot> <Bytram> <FatPhil> I wold say that, I'm colour-blind!
[14:25:11] <Bytram> FatPhil: s/u//2
[14:25:11] <SedBot> <Bytram> <FatPhil> I would say that, I'm color-blind!
[14:25:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> brit-fail
[14:25:24] <FatPhil> blame the bloody french!
[14:25:29] * Bytram just blew that attempt at a bad joke
[14:25:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> i always do
[14:26:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, been dicking around till the store i need to hit opened. time is up though, gotta go be productive.
[14:28:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Android Sends 20x More Data to Google Than iOS Sends to Apple, Study Says - https://sylnt.us
[14:29:35] <Bytram> FatPhil: Thanks for that clarification! That Wikipedia article I found ended up being exactly what I was looking for... filled in some fading memories!
[14:29:57] <Bytram> Annnd, it's time for me to get going, too.
[14:30:00] <Bytram> laters!
[14:36:19] <Fnord666> Bobcats are badass! Faster than a snake's strike.
[14:36:21] <Fnord666> https://www.youtube.com
[14:36:22] <systemd> ^ 03Bobcat vs. Rattlesnake!
[14:40:06] <bacterium> mew kitteh!!!!
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[16:17:06] <bacterium> oh crap, good luck
[16:17:08] <bacterium> mt
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[16:55:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Colorado Denied its Citizens the Right-to-Repair After Riveting Testimony - https://sylnt.us
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[18:21:22] <FatPhil> you have been RECORDEED while yo
[18:21:23] <FatPhil> u MASSTURBATE.
[18:21:58] <FatPhil> Your smart-phone got a MALLWARE and turned on your CAMERA
[18:22:27] <FatPhil> The old days of just using a spelling checker to act as a spam filter seem to be coming back
[19:03:21] <mechanicjay> Well, I'm sure the misspelling of 'massturbate' is deliberate to get around filters that black-hole stuff that contain the word spelled correctly.
[19:26:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Posts First Beta Code for Lyra Speech Compression Codec - https://sylnt.us - what-languages-does-it-work-best-and-worst-on?
[21:13:17] <FatPhil> If you can prove circular reasoning works by using circular reasoning, then that proves that circular reasoning does really work.
[21:56:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - COVID-19 Pandemic Estimated to Cost NASA $3 Billion - https://sylnt.us - Now-that's-just-sick!
[22:02:49] <chromas> Three dollars billion
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[23:50:17] <AzumaHazuki> oooh, just learned about how Rust works: no active GC, it's just that the compiler will scream and die if your code has a memory leak. clever, though it relies on the compiler being almost omniscient...