#soylent | Logs for 2021-08-01
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[00:26:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Vaccinated People Make Up 75% of Recent COVID-19 Cases in Singapore, but Few Fall Ill - https://sylnt.us - falling-up
[00:26:29] <AzumaHazuki> sounds like the vaccines are working then
[00:27:33] <requerdanos> It's a numbers game. Here, we have large numbers of unwashed unvaccinated; most of our cases are of unvaccinated folks.
[00:28:20] * Teckla wonders how they define "Fall Ill"
[00:30:47] <requerdanos> From TFS, "all the fully vaccinated and infected people had shown no symptoms, or only mild ones"
[00:33:04] <Deucalion> https://arstechnica.com
[00:33:05] <systemd> ^ 03This 900-person delta cluster in Mass. has CDC freaked out
[00:33:25] <Deucalion> Symptomatic covid in vaccinated on the rise
[00:33:26] <Teckla> Hrmm, so they've been testing people showing no symptoms? Interesting.
[00:34:09] <requerdanos> You'd have to to get a data set like that.
[00:36:24] <Deucalion> Teckla, people in many regions are having to take regular PCR and lateral flow tests for travel reasons etc. Hence we now get datasets that show positive results but no symptoms. Whereas a year ago we were in reactive mode - only testing those that turned up at the hospital with lungs full of fluid :D
[00:37:11] <Teckla> Deucalion: Ah! Thanks for the information.
[00:37:25] <AzumaHazuki> delta is apparently as contagious as chicken pox. lovely.
[00:37:45] <requerdanos> someone can look at you wrong and give you chicken pox.
[00:37:53] <Deucalion> It's a step forward in observability but it makes comparing numbers over even 6 months past or 12 months past or 18 months past really hard.
[00:38:26] * Teckla suspects we're looking at an eternal game of whack-a-mole now, as the virus mutates a bunch.
[00:38:27] <requerdanos> that's kind of what I meant by a numbers game -- the data you get out depends on what you put in
[00:38:52] <Runaway1956> I heard something like that once - GIGO
[00:39:13] <requerdanos> well, except that's not data as such, just garbage. high degree of correlation though.,
[00:39:14] <Runaway1956> never made much sense really - who puts garbage into their calculator?
[00:39:58] <Runaway1956> lots of people put garbage into their stomachs though
[00:40:11] <Deucalion> requerdanos, indeed. It is a moving feast. Ultimately the numbers that matter is ICU %ge occupation and %ge condemned with long covid for the rest of their lives. Reduced lung function, impaired cognition etc.
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[00:40:46] <requerdanos> and vaccines do seem to protect against both of those things.
[00:40:58] <Deucalion> https://arstechnica.com
[00:40:59] <systemd> ^ 03This 900-person delta cluster in Mass. has CDC freaked out
[00:41:10] <Deucalion> Read it....
[00:41:35] <requerdanos> I am reading it.
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[00:41:36] <Deucalion> Variant escaping vacc to produce symptomatic cases
[00:42:53] <requerdanos> they seem to be symptomatic to a lesser degree. of some 500 cases, only four fully vaccinated in hospital, two of those with underlying conditions
[00:43:09] <Deucalion> Agreed. Still concerning
[00:43:42] <requerdanos> more concerning, those with less symptoms seemed to have as much viral load as unvaaccinated people, and presumably able to transmit the disease as effectively
[00:44:00] <Deucalion> Maybe the vacc didn;t take with those individuals for some reason... immuno compromised for e.g.
[00:44:03] <requerdanos> more effectively, since they would be out and about and not confined to a hospital
[00:44:11] <Deucalion> Yes
[00:44:48] * Runaway1956 thinks he will continue to avoid crowds
[00:45:09] <Deucalion> Hence the dropping mask requirement is horrifically selfish as there are those in society who cannot be vaccinated ir are immuno-compromised due to organ transplant or w/e
[00:46:11] <Deucalion> But hey - we have to get the money moving again... what's a few hundred thousand corpses between friends?
[00:47:11] <requerdanos> masks are a political issue here. There is a high correlation between people believing that Trump won the presidential election that he lost, and believing that the masks are security theater designed to steal your freedom.
[00:47:34] <Deucalion> The board need their bonuses the idle shareholders need their dividend... back to work peon. Fucking Feudalism is here and no-one sees it.
[00:47:39] <requerdanos> Businesses run by Trumpers prohibiting masks within their workplaces, etc.
[00:48:01] <Runaway1956> There is some chance that if the US weren't into security theater, fewer people would be suspicious of mask mandates
[00:48:14] <Runaway1956> it's almost like 'what goes around comes around'
[00:48:47] <requerdanos> So the US deserves to have hordes of morons refusing to mask up and spreading disease like vermin? That's pretty harsh.
[00:49:03] <requerdanos> I sure never did anything to deserve that.
[00:49:15] <Runaway1956> the virus don't know harsh - it only knows survival and nonsurvival
[00:49:53] <requerdanos> it benefits the virus for its victims to not immediately die--live longer, spread more, the virus benefits.
[00:50:14] <Runaway1956> Have we explained that to the virus?
[00:50:15] <requerdanos> this is probably a factor in ebola infections burning out--it just kills its hosts
[00:50:16] <Deucalion> I nearly moved to the US for work at several points. Glad I didn't. I like the people but fuck me the politics in everything, the partisanship, the constant "everything has to be a competition" thing.... yeah... nah....
[00:50:30] <AzumaHazuki> this country is fucking insane
[00:50:59] <requerdanos> the virus learns the same way the unvaccinated are learning, namely, by natural selection
[00:51:31] <AzumaHazuki> innocents will suffer because of this. my mother just retired and is going to have cancer treatment soon.
[00:52:21] * Runaway1956 notes that at grandmotherly age, there are few innocents left
[00:52:47] <requerdanos> there are lots of people innocent of dumbassery with respect to vaccination.
[00:53:02] <Runaway1956> lol - see how polarized you are?
[00:53:05] <requerdanos> I mean, an alarming number on the other side of that too, but still.
[00:53:32] <AzumaHazuki> and then there's fucking anti-vax assholes who refuse even to wear a goddamn mask because "muh freedumbz"
[00:53:48] <requerdanos> I confess that it's largely personal inconvenience that has got me pissed off at the anti vaxers.
[00:54:02] <AzumaHazuki> i really hope they die of covid. in the street. due to their hospitals being full of people like them. or worse, survive it but lose everything they have
[00:54:21] <Runaway1956> once again - see how hateful that woman is?
[00:54:48] <requerdanos> the more people die, the more variants are created, the more this state of affairs drags on, the less I like it. People getting vaccines are helping to rectify the situation; people refusing them are making it worse while calling that "personal choice."
[00:55:24] <requerdanos> if your choice makes other people more likely to die, it is not "personal."
[00:55:35] <Runaway1956> life is often like that - full of people who won't do as you wish
[00:55:54] <requerdanos> yes, but normally that doesn't, again, make people more likely to die, nor personally inconvenience me.
[00:56:14] <requerdanos> people can do what they want in my worldview as long as it doesn't hurt others.
[00:56:17] <AzumaHazuki> this country is spiritually sick. we've got a few people here who are spreading this shit
[00:56:37] <AzumaHazuki> they don't give a fuck about anyone else and will use anything and any idea, however half-baked, to justify it
[00:56:54] <requerdanos> refusing the vaccine (whether as a loony antivaxxer or as a "vaccine hesitant citizen", same thing) hurts others as mentioned above.
[00:57:09] <Runaway1956> *yawn*
[00:58:06] <AzumaHazuki> i wish to fuck no innocents would suffer because of this. i'm fine with every single selfish asshole out there dying (or worse, surviving and being fucked for life)
[00:58:10] <AzumaHazuki> but it never works like that
[00:58:19] <Deucalion> Ultimately the western world will be populated solely by selfish sociopaths shouting at each other that "something must be done", noone will get off their ass to do anything because someone else should do their bidding and they will end up with the world they deserve.
[00:58:33] <requerdanos> no, I would be okay with that too, personal choice, personal consequences, but that's not the situation
[00:59:06] <requerdanos> yeah, but lots of other people would also end up with that world, many undeservingly.
[01:00:03] <Runaway1956> If every single selfish asshole were to die, there wouldn't be very many Democrats left either.
[01:00:26] <requerdanos> uh, democrats? I missed the connection, I guess.
[01:01:00] <Deucalion> The selfish sociopaths will win because they just tread on everyone else's heads, get wealthy off everyone else's hard work. Ultimately it will be just them in an enclave because they killed the golden goose that kept them in the style they believed they deserved. They are welcome to it. And may it be a fucking miserable hellscape for them.
[01:01:14] <Runaway1956> Well, if we're going to pretend that only Rs and/or unvaxxed people are selfish, I need to point out that the other side is selfish too
[01:01:18] <requerdanos> oh, the trump anti maskers, maybe. Yeah lots of selfish among both the D's and R's.
[01:02:04] <requerdanos> The antimask buffonery is just how some of the trumpers express their particular brand of lunacy, is all.
[01:02:29] <requerdanos> selfishness is certainly not something they have any exclusive claim to.
[01:02:42] <Runaway1956> the health care professionals would have us believe that one in four people are crazy anyway
[01:02:45] <Deucalion> I don't think sociopathy cares about partisanship - I see it everywhere regardless of political affiliation. The end result is the same.
[01:02:57] <requerdanos> well put.
[01:03:18] <requerdanos> that's the technical healthcare term for it? crazy? :)
[01:03:41] <Runaway1956> No, they like stupid latin and greek names for things that mean "crazy"
[01:04:05] <Deucalion> What 'crazy' means is "does not comply"
[01:04:15] <requerdanos> I am sure the latin and greek names make perfect sense to someone.
[01:05:36] * Deucalion studied Latin and Greek history and language... they do make sense as far as words go... as for the current medical profession using such things - seems like elitist, exclusionary bollocks to me.
[01:05:51] <Runaway1956> The Eskimo have dozens of different names for snow and ice
[01:06:01] <Runaway1956> Americans have dozens of names for crazy
[01:07:01] <Deucalion> So the Eskimo should - it makes a differences if the snow is light and fluffy and blowing around aimlessly or if it is wet snow and will soak your attire within a few minutes and you freeze to death.
[01:08:35] <Runaway1956> lol
[01:08:58] <Deucalion> If you don't have the luxury of just going back indoors immediately and putting clothes to dry, changing clothes, you're going to differentiate between snow that will soak and kill you and snow that just falls off you.
[01:09:39] <requerdanos> I am not sure the same logic applies to all the words for craziness.
[01:11:28] <Deucalion> No, indeed there are very real mental illnesses
[01:13:04] <Deucalion> And indeed what I would call unhealthy mental states induced by external factors - pressure, poverty etc and on. Remove the external pressures and the mind sorts itself out.
[01:13:06] * Runaway1956 wonders if Euros catch crazy as often as 'Muricans
[01:13:38] <Deucalion> Europe is not one federated country
[01:13:49] <requerdanos> well, they have a union.
[01:14:05] <Runaway1956> The EU is one unfederated country?
[01:14:21] <Deucalion> It's not a country
[01:14:36] <requerdanos> no no, it's federated, it's just multiple countries joining together in the common cause of europness
[01:14:59] <Deucalion> That none of the member states actually implement
[01:15:10] <Runaway1956> That kinda depends on how you look at it - "nation" is probably a more accurate term, with multiple member states
[01:15:51] <requerdanos> because our country is a nation of member states, here, nation and country are virtually synonyms. The nuances are lost.
[01:16:27] * Runaway1956 brushes the nuances off the table
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[01:20:51] <Deucalion> "Europe" being one country is a bureaucratic wet dream of a thing borne out of the european area trade agreements going back decades. The pencil wielders got excited and spawned the EU - one currency, one central financial control, one government - it completely disregarded reality - ya know, simple things like demographics, culture, each nation's abilities for agriculture or manufacturing etc.
[01:21:13] <Deucalion> Slight oversight.
[01:22:03] <Runaway1956> Yeah, but, diversity overcomes all obstacles, or something like that
[01:23:17] <Deucalion> OK, if you say so
[01:24:46] <Runaway1956> I don't say so - that's just something I've heard in recent years, chanted over and over again
[01:25:23] <requerdanos> sounds like propaganda to me.
[01:25:47] <requerdanos> diversity gives diverse viewpoints, sure. does that make things better or worse? like anything, 'it depends'
[01:27:26] <Deucalion> At least we're no longer bombing the shit out of each others cities or otherwise being involved in parochial wars that server no purpose. That crap was going on for centuries. That's progress. Fewer needless dead teenagers and 20 somethings.
[01:29:00] <Deucalion> I daresay that's because the ageing population spotted the reproduction rate and had an eye on their pension pot..... need the peons to pay into the pot so they can take out after all :D
[01:29:35] <Runaway1956> Ahhhhh yes, that whole "OK Boomer" thing
[01:29:38] * Deucalion wonders if maximal cynicism is even possible. This can;t be healthy or good for me
[01:31:24] <Deucalion> Runaway1956, every problem in life is caused by someone or something else, therefore it should be fixed for us without us lifting a finger. That's what I call fair.
[01:32:18] <Runaway1956> Wait a minute now - I'm the problem making tech, you'll have to talk to a problem solving tech if you want fair
[01:33:01] * Runaway1956 checks tool belt for nut-rounding monke wrench
[01:33:32] <Deucalion> I once heard some mad man going on about how "that's how life is" - he was saying life just goes this way, obstacles come up and you deal with them - you LITERALLY have to solve your own problems.... as I said he was mad.
[01:34:03] * Deucalion waits for the leaky pipe in the ceiling to stop leaking
[01:34:15] <Runaway1956> So, that's one of those one in four people are crazy - or one in five - or whatever number they're using today
[01:35:34] <Deucalion> Meh... define "crazy".
[01:36:52] <Runaway1956> crazy is when people around you don't understand you I think
[01:37:14] <Runaway1956> which helps to explain why we have so many crazy Mexicans in the USA
[01:38:25] <Runaway1956> Oh-ho - I just noticed that Duckduckgo has put up a sign like McDonalds
[01:38:36] <Runaway1956> 78 billion searches served!
[01:39:33] <Runaway1956> https://overhowmanybillionserved.blogspot.com
[01:39:34] <systemd> ^ 03OVER HOW MANY BILLION SERVED?
[01:41:40] <Runaway1956> That site seems to err a little
[01:42:05] <Runaway1956> McDonald's signs always said "xxx million burgers served" - never customers
[01:43:31] <Deucalion> The common wisdom would say "If everyone around you seems crazy, maybe it is you that is the crazy one", Deucalion wisdom says "If everyone around you seems crazy, maybe you are the only one left that the brainwashing didn't take" :D
[01:44:11] * Deucalion mulls on life
[01:45:04] <tedious> I think the second one is right. :)
[01:45:55] <requerdanos> I know someone who believes the second one. I also know a sinkhole full of TV sets she destroyed because the gov't was sending laser signals into her brain through the TV against her will.
[01:46:11] <requerdanos> So, your mileage may vary, I guess is what I am saying there.
[01:47:06] <requerdanos> when she got a laptop she went off on a rant at the neighbors furious because they were sending wifi signals into her house without her permission, trying to control her
[01:47:18] <requerdanos> you know, because the laptop showed nearby access points.
[01:48:19] <tedious> Some people name their wifi network FBI Surveillance Van. :)
[01:48:22] <Deucalion> tedious, then I guess we can be crazy together in the face of the onslaught of "normalising" the population. It won't achieve anything but at least we still have the mental faculties left to observe and appreciate it for what ot os.
[01:48:42] <Deucalion> it*
[01:48:49] <tedious> Sounds like fun. :)
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[01:49:06] <tedious> That's better than being miserable because the world is going to hell anyway.
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[01:50:38] <Deucalion> requerdanos, sounds like she needed some education
[01:51:20] <requerdanos> just her personal belief system at work. she was somewhat resistant to the idea that mind control is not known to work in the way she describes.
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[01:53:59] <Deucalion> tedious, even in a shit and getting shittier local world, life falling apart scenario, there are ways to not be consumed by circumstance. Control state of mind.
[01:55:36] <Deucalion> requerdanos, mind control doesn't work in the way she describes? How does it work? At all? Ever?
[01:56:28] <Deucalion> I mean... I get social interaction manipulation and coercion..... seen it happen. But via a device...
[01:56:29] <requerdanos> https://en.wikipedia.org
[01:56:30] <systemd> ^ 03Brainwashing - Wikipedia
[01:57:47] <requerdanos> she seems to think the brainwashing waves are contained in the light output from a television, or if just a radio, from LEDs or lights on the front of the device.
[01:58:08] <requerdanos> That's as good a definition of "crazy" as I've seen/
[01:58:24] <Runaway1956> The Cubans have packaged their mind control in microwave beams I think
[02:01:57] <requerdanos> I don't know that'
[02:02:11] <requerdanos> s not the case, but I admit some scepticism
[02:02:43] <Deucalion> I'm sure at some point we as a species will have a complete understanding of how the brain or mind works. For now though it is a plastic morphable mass we mess with via physical or chemical interaction. But even then, it is a black box scenario... manipulate the inputs, observer the outputs.
[02:04:11] <Deucalion> Of course there are those of the belief our minds are linked to a different shared plane of existence - so good luck
[02:04:15] <aristarchus> We have no way to detect, or quantify consciousness. There is only behavior. So, perhaps, consciousness does not exist?
[02:06:22] * Deucalion grows a beard to stroke, declares self a philosopher.... writes coffee table book
[02:06:46] <requerdanos> good luck finding readers/buyers without consciousness :)
[02:07:20] <raxas> brainwashing begins at school/church/family, by delivering a standardized model of thinking, submissiveness and unconditional trust to authorities
[02:07:54] <aristarchus> None of that matters, if you do not actually have consciousness. Mind-control? You should be so lucky!
[02:09:25] <raxas> well, I have two.
[02:09:55] <requerdanos> two Deucalion books?
[02:09:58] <aristarchus> Are you sure it is not "half a mind"?
[02:11:49] <Deucalion> aristarchus, I can self determine when I slip between consciousness and unconsciousness as commonly defined and understood. Drinking to the point of being an invertebrate jelly on the floor to reach that state of transition is not recommended. It's unpleasant.
[02:12:25] <raxas> one of my two consciousnesses is instinctive, rush, emotional and fierce. the other is cold, rational, analytic and focused
[02:12:47] <Deucalion> Hind and fore brain
[02:15:11] <aristarchus> There are those who think the decision follows the determination, or in other words the awareness is epiphenomenal.
[02:15:13] <Deucalion> We're lead to believe that is what makes us superior
[02:18:06] <aristarchus> I thought it was the neighbor that was being mind-controlled!
[02:18:55] * Deucalion deploys psyops "control aristarchus"
[02:19:01] <Deucalion> shit wrong channel
[02:19:34] <Runaway1956> Is there a faraday cage around this channel?
[02:19:57] <requerdanos> nah, it would be even quieter if so
[02:20:46] <Deucalion> nah just working on invoking paranoia
[02:21:19] <Deucalion> wait... does anyone take this seriously?
[02:21:41] <Runaway1956> I'm not wearing my cereal suit
[02:22:51] <Runaway1956> can't find my serial suit either!
[02:25:32] <Deucalion> Every time a funeral comes up I have to buy a new suit as I go the wardrobe to get the last suit I bought for the last funeral (just a short while back in my memory) to find it is ancient and musty.
[02:26:22] <aristarchus> Once they put you in the ground, no one will notice.
[02:28:36] <Deucalion> I'm absolutely sure the people whose funeral it is and are being buried or burnt wouldn't give a shit if I turned up in a thong.... just happy I am there to celebrate their life just spent and expired... but no... have to suit up so we can all artificially lament in the ordained way.
[02:29:19] <Deucalion> aristarchus, you assume I have faked my own death only once.
[02:30:23] <aristarchus> But certainly you bought a new suit each time. I know I do.
[02:33:46] <aristarchus> Enough solipcism and morbidity for one day! Bye, all!
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[02:36:40] * Deucalion WINS - FATALITY!
[02:36:48] <Runaway1956> Exciting stuff right here!
[02:36:52] <Runaway1956> https://www.youtube.com
[02:36:55] <systemd> ^ 03Michael Says Prime Numbers for 3 Hours
[02:37:05] <Runaway1956> don't get addicted
[02:38:11] <Deucalion> that sounds like a video for the suicidal
[02:39:19] <requerdanos> our dinosaurs are all female
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[03:44:23] <SoyCow8588> runaway still around?
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[05:16:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - China is Building a 2nd Base for Nuclear Missiles, Say Analysts - https://sylnt.us
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[08:18:54] <chromas> I wish sulla hung around moar
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[09:59:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Research Shows Cell Aging Can be Slowed by Oxidants - https://sylnt.us - antiantioxidants
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[11:02:41] <FatPhil> inz: I know it ain't your thang, but when I saw this I smiled: http://fatphil.org
[11:03:16] <FatPhil> (One Pint Pub is the pub we were in, hence the filename)
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[14:38:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Rickroll Video Hits a Billion Views on YouTube as Internet’s Most Popular Prank - https://sylnt.us
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[15:08:41] <inz> FP, I 'spouse that holds true for certain definitions of fun
[15:10:40] <FatPhil> my beer of the festival was a sahti.
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[18:26:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Analysts Say China is Building a Second Base for Nuclear Missiles - https://sylnt.us
[18:56:56] <AzumaHazuki> oh, wonderful
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[19:34:00] <raxas> remember: any pingpong bloathall for pupils teams may hide a nuke silo
[19:39:04] <chromas> Are people still using nukes?
[19:39:22] <chromas> Why not just launch actual silos of hot, dry grain? It'll do the same thing.
[19:40:14] <Bytram> chromas: that could literally be explosive
[19:40:42] <Bytram> Hmmm. I wonder
[19:40:44] <raxas> chinese used explosive flour in ww2
[19:40:47] <chromas> really
[19:41:10] <Bytram> =yt grain silo explosion
[19:41:11] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Grain Bin Collapse and Grain Dust Explosion (02:39; 273,198 views; 👍1,311 👎53)
[19:42:50] <raxas> that's not too difficult to lab. and one of the major reasons I am convinced so called terrorists are completely fake western controlled agenda. for they terrorists did not invented this yet
[19:43:02] <chromas> oh that wouldn't be a good substitute for nukes at all if it explodes
[19:43:53] <raxas> and in russia ww2, the explosive flour was good enough to bake a bread safely
[19:44:12] <chromas> all terrorist turn out to be agitated by the feds, so I'd be totally shocked if they were fake news
[19:44:45] <raxas> so it's unbelievable terrorists can't replicate that and simply shop for explosives in a grocery
[19:46:25] <FatPhil> civilised people use custard powder
[19:46:34] <chromas> instead, they're totally legitimately putting explosives in their shoes and other places that mean we have to strip and get molested by strangers without continuous enthusiastic affirmative consent
[19:47:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Two-Thirds of American Employees Regret Their College Degrees - https://sylnt.us
[19:48:40] <raxas> that never made a sense to me. shoes... I could make a perfect explosive book from a book. itnot ebook, though.
[19:48:52] <raxas> it's celulose like other
[19:50:00] <raxas> trinitropaper is elementary school tech
[19:50:15] <chromas> oh yeah? I bet you coudn't possibly make an explosive in one of those tiny shampoos
[19:50:56] <raxas> and instead of sane and effective tools, those terrorists build funny contraptions instead. that does not make sense
[19:51:53] <chromas> underwear bomber. we've gotta check your package to see if you've got junk in your crunk
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