#soylent | Logs for 2023-06-17
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[01:05:55] <AlwaysNever> kolie: Is tha staging brought by just cloning the production site, or by deploying its parts from scratch with some ansible/whatever recipe?
[01:34:36] <kolie> It's a fresh deployment.
[01:38:20] <kolie> Every time I make a change it gets redeployed from scratch - I serve it the same db files it had beofre - but I can reload those too.
[01:54:59] <AlwaysNever> very nice: which means all the moving parts which make de site and it's dependencies are known, documented, and building the site from scratch is automated
[01:57:19] <AlwaysNever> is the staging deployment done over some modern, currently supported, Linux distribution? or does it still need to run on some outdated "part"?
[02:10:08] <kolie> the only really outdated part is rehash, apache 2.2 is still used in staging though working towards 2.4
[02:11:25] <kolie> It's not a huge issue its still on 2.2 - but getting it on 2.4 is a really good step to achieve.
[02:20:47] <AlwaysNever> when you say rehash is outdated, you mean that it does not currently runs on Apache 2.4? Or is rehash outdated in some other sense?
[02:24:08] <AlwaysNever> I also don't thing Apache 2.2 is a problem, specially because if it ever becomes a problem (like it not supporting some future TLS version), a more modern web proxy can be place in front of it and by pushing Apache 2.2 to the backend it can run forerver "as is"
[02:27:23] <AlwaysNever> banks do that kind of thing all day pushing their cobol deeper into the backend and putting modern front-ends over their legacy code
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[03:24:06] <janrinok> AlwaysNever, as I understand it, the system is now working on updated OS software, using current versions of Perl and Apache 2.4.
[03:26:00] <janrinok> The site is using an Ansible build in staging, while the staff have an alternative (using the same updated software versions) but on a bare-metal build.
[03:26:38] <janrinok> They are not identical, having been updated by different teams.
[03:27:07] <janrinok> but the UI and functionality remains the same on both systems.
[03:29:08] <janrinok> The git repo for rehash is not the current one running on the site system (it should be, but for the moment there are some differences). Downloading from the repo does not provide the current sql schema so ultimately cannot be run as a stand alone system.
[03:29:53] <janrinok> I do not know what has changed in the schema - we have not seen any documentation yet.
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[04:26:06] <mechanicjay> janrinok: the schema changes are almost all documented in a myraid of update pieces, they're just not wrapped up in a way to apply in a reasonable way at this point.
[04:26:39] <janrinok> thanks
[04:28:07] <janrinok> Is there a new issue of the full database schema doc that lived in Rehash until recently?
[04:28:39] <janrinok> I use that as my reference document
[04:30:01] <mechanicjay> Sorry, I don't quite understand your question
[04:31:37] <janrinok> In my downloaded package from the Rehash repo, there is a document that describes every table and every field in each table. Has that been updated yet?
[04:33:55] <mechanicjay> Are you talking about the the scema files in the mysql directory?
[04:34:59] <janrinok> yes, probably, but I have it as a stand-alone document now. I would have to go and check.
[04:36:45] <janrinok> No, that is not what I mean. I will have to find where it is stored.
[04:37:01] <mechanicjay> Well, I'm sure it hasn't been updated.
[04:37:05] <mechanicjay> regardless :0
[04:37:11] <janrinok> lol, thanks
[04:38:44] <mechanicjay> Anyway, NC dumped a new schema definition which is 50% of what was needed. The other 50% is going to be extracting all the INSERT statements from the various update pieces to add them to the initial data import.
[04:39:24] <janrinok> does yours build cleanly now?
[04:39:55] <mechanicjay> This is work I am going to try to get to next week -- was a crazy work week this week and I didn't really get to much aside from trying to help kolie troubleshoot a few things.
[04:40:52] <janrinok> yeah, I was just curious, I know that you are busy at the moment.
[04:58:41] <mechanicjay> I kinda have a plan to make a couple VMs -- one running a Apache 2.2, one to run Apache 2.4 for build testing and "main" test site. Turns out I need that Apache 2.2 site for determining if this is a mod_apreq2/Perl5.36 issue or a just "the base site install doesn't work because DB issues" or just an actual bug.
[04:59:09] <mechanicjay> Because trying to troubleshoot issues with the 2.4 build without a 2.2 site to mess with is just too hard.
[04:59:38] <janrinok> understood. Is there anything I can do to help. Do you need funding?
[04:59:51] <mechanicjay> Thankfully, I nabbed a RAM upgrade from the scrap pile for the desktop so I have leetle more capacity to play with there
[05:00:20] <mechanicjay> janrinok: I really appreciate that offer, but I cannot take your money.
[05:00:57] <mechanicjay> I have enough compute here...most of it even works!
[05:03:19] <janrinok> It wouldn't be 'my' money, I can just spend it how I wish sort of thing.
[05:03:46] <mechanicjay> My big issue is almost every machine I have here is like Xeon X5355 or E5430 based -- so on the order of 13-15 yrs old
[05:04:02] <mechanicjay> They run HOT and suck down the KWH
[05:04:14] <janrinok> when you get time we can speak privately.
[05:06:11] <mechanicjay> okay, I've got to shuffle the kids off to bed now -- let them stay up waaay too late...last of school today, summer break starts NOW! :) :)
[05:06:37] <janrinok> lol - go sort things out. Family is a priority!
[05:09:25] <kolie> mj i can give you testing on the staging
[05:11:39] <mechanicjay> The global supply chain shit the last couple years has really impacted my cast-off freebee hardware acquision rate.
[05:11:59] <mechanicjay> kolie: okay, lets talk tomorrow, really going now
[05:12:00] <janrinok> I have got admin access to staging - that is all I need. If I process a story will it break anything serious?
[05:12:04] <kolie> yea if you want a decent vm i can just root you on one too
[05:12:22] <kolie> ok cool later. i dont mind throwing you a decent vps
[05:12:37] <kolie> im going to a.concert rn
[05:12:45] <janrinok> I have got loads of hardware - I am not having an issue at the moment
[05:12:51] <janrinok> enjoy your concert!
[05:13:00] <kolie> me too so much hardware. thx man ttyl
[05:13:11] <janrinok> laters!
[05:19:33] <janrinok> afk
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[08:03:18] <AlwaysNever> It's worrisome that the site/code/database had been updated piecemeal over a long period of time without fully documenting what was being done, and without keeping the code repo in sync with production.
[08:03:45] <AlwaysNever> It's reassurring to see that is been corrected now
[08:04:41] <AlwaysNever> As they say, everybody has a test system, it's just that no everyone has de luxury of having a separate production environment, LOL
[08:33:19] <janrinok> The repo was accurate - although not well documented by today's standards - until recently. The changes that have happened over the last 6 months still need to be fully documented.
[08:34:54] <janrinok> The rehash source has never been well documented (use the source Luke) but it is well structured. But if you still haven't got your mind around the various symbols that precede variables then trying to follow the logic can be difficult.
[08:36:38] <janrinok> People who work with it everyday say it is fine - if you only jump in to look at what a specific piece of code does or what might be causing a bug then it can be pretty tortuous.
[09:18:29] <Ingar> that goes for most codebases and non-trivial bugs
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[12:54:47] <Grd> hi Bryan, bye Bryan
[13:14:35] <janrinok> hi Grd
[13:43:59] <Grd> hello!
[13:44:16] <Grd> how are things today?
[14:01:35] <Ingar> hot, thick air
[14:09:29] <Grd> air existing is good.. better than no air
[14:13:16] <Ingar> as a spaceman, I concur entirely
[14:13:41] <Ingar> clouds are gathering, need to drag my telescope inside
[14:17:22] <Grd> will you be able to see space, once the sky is full of satellites?
[14:33:49] <Grd> Could move to an island in the middle of the ocean
[14:33:55] <Grd> Until the ocean rises
[14:42:40] <Grd> and freezes over
[14:50:35] <Ingar> I'd need Starlink to get internet there
[14:50:51] <Grd> but then you lose.. stars..
[14:51:26] <Ingar> the paradox of life
[14:51:49] <Grd> built a higher platform
[14:51:53] <Grd> a platform of platforms
[14:53:50] <Grd> that was a joke, by the way. a management joke. it went on for years.
[14:54:17] <Ingar> I bet it was a pyramid scheme
[14:54:45] <janrinok> :)
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[15:18:48] <bryan> oxygen not included? i'm so addicting to that game...
[15:19:40] <bryan> https://store.steampowered.com also happens to only be $8.50 this weekend
[15:19:42] <systemd> ^ 03Save 66% on Oxygen Not Included on Steam
[15:19:43] <janrinok> hi Bryan, how's things?
[15:19:57] <bryan> good good
[15:20:45] <janrinok> same here, but glad it is the weekend
[15:49:52] <chromas> No need to see the sky directly. Just go back inside your LED-lined dome and look up and the deeplearn-enhanced skybox
[15:52:01] <Grd> interesting.. haven't seen that. Thanks, Bryan. I have a friend who loves this type of game
[15:56:09] <Ingar> chromas: that's the idea, I RDP into the system connected to the scope.
[15:57:39] <Grd> Has anyone here used Steam on linux?
[15:57:52] <RunningWithWind> Yeah
[15:58:16] <Grd> good? bad? otherwise?
[15:58:36] <RunningWithWind> With games that support Vulkan - pretty good - otherwise meh
[15:58:47] <ted-ious> Video games are like drugs that kids can buy legally. :)
[15:58:54] * Grd looks up Vulkan
[15:59:04] <Grd> what are MUDs then..
[15:59:42] <RunningWithWind> MUDs are amazing - too bad they are no longer a thing right
[15:59:55] <RunningWithWind> I used to play at pr.com years ago, loved that MUD
[15:59:56] <Grd> ah, sure
[16:00:16] <Grd> the top mud list still exists
[16:00:24] <Grd> people still play them
[16:00:35] <Grd> I'm surprised no one made a Harry Potter MUD
[16:09:33] <RunningWithWind> They are still a thing, had no idea - just tried aardwolf
[16:09:45] <Grd> I remember aardwold
[16:09:50] <Grd> hrm wolf :)
[16:13:29] <Grd> maybe they will have a comeback when VR rules the internet
[16:13:42] <Grd> Wb 4.0 - VR/AR Mode
[16:14:30] * Grd waves
[16:36:37] <Bytram> This W/E the US celebrates Juneteenth ( https://en.wikipedia.org )
[16:36:39] <systemd> ^ 03Juneteenth - Wikipedia
[16:36:52] <chromas> no we don't :)
[16:37:50] <requerdanos> "celebration" of "juneteenth" is a pretty spotty and isolated thing, but slavery is bad so go juneteenth.
[16:38:12] <Bytram> Hard to track down the specific date, this year though.
[16:38:21] <chromas> "slavery is bad, buy our products"
[16:38:34] <requerdanos> yes, this message sponsored by our products.
[16:40:06] <Bytram> Either way, I'd suggest we make this Monday a day following a weekend posting schedule.
[16:40:19] <requerdanos> it's hard to track down a specific date because "teenth" is NaN - not a number.
[16:40:28] <chromas> Any excuse for a party or day off is welcome :D
[16:40:46] <requerdanos> but my bank is closed on monday, and I had a meeting at the courthouse on monday that was cancelled "for juneteenth closures"
[16:40:46] <janrinok> Bytram, at the moment everyday is following the weekend posting schedule.....
[16:41:01] <chromas> well make it even weekendier
[16:41:09] <Bytram> LOL!
[16:41:11] <chromas> half a story per post
[16:41:18] <requerdanos> weekend in feel as well as in spacing
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[20:29:10] <progo> "juneteenth" -- I reject the NAME of the holiday. it is stupid.
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[21:17:08] <requerdanos> I would ask if you had a smarter name for it, but almost any name would be smarter I suppose
[21:45:52] <AlwaysNever> progo: liberation day would be a better name
[21:47:40] <progo> AlwaysNever that sounds much better yes
[21:49:19] <AlwaysNever> but holiday days raraley come out of reason, but from tradition, and tradition is not thought out before hand, it's just what it is
[21:49:51] <progo> AFAICT Kwanzaa was created for political reasons and didn't exist IRL before that
[21:50:12] * AlwaysNever searching Kwanzaa in wikipedia....
[21:51:26] <AlwaysNever> uffff, that "alternative" Christimas thing get tiresome, from Jews or from Africans
[22:19:45] <kolie> hanukkah isnt one of the highest of holy days but it does give parity with other children
[22:20:56] <kolie> but was a holiday long before in any case.
[22:21:49] <kolie> christmas has largely been secularized anyways at this point for a large portion of people