#soylent | Logs for 2023-07-31
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[00:32:48] <chromas> hmm, there's evil afoot
[00:33:04] <chromas> there's a mouse in the house, and he's been stealing my baking chocolate
[00:40:45] <barrahome> chromas!!
[00:41:30] <requerdanos> yum, chocolate
[00:45:17] <chromas> g'day barrahome, requerdanos
[00:45:28] <chromas> it's been a couple years
[00:46:31] <barrahome> what's new?
[00:46:45] <barrahome> i came to check what's up with all the debate
[00:51:57] <chromas> SN is hanging by a thread, the usual detractors are 'bating with weighted breath
[01:34:25] <Runaway1956> Big meeting is tomorrow, at 1:30, Pacific time, right?
[01:34:37] <Runaway1956> I just wanna be clear
[01:35:02] <Runaway1956> Right here in #soylent, or another channel?
[01:52:08] <progo> https://soylentnews.org
[01:52:10] <systemd> ^ 03Upcoming SoylentNews PBC Meeting - SoylentNews
[01:52:11] <progo> huh
[01:52:20] <progo> the blog post doesn't specify AM or PM
[01:52:39] <progo> pick your preference, night or day in Pacific time, and show up then
[02:00:19] <progo> assuming afternoon, here it is in your time zone: https://www.timeanddate.com
[02:00:20] <systemd> ^ 03Event Time Announcer - SoylentNews PBC Meeting
[02:01:48] <Runaway1956> LOL, that gives me the time for where they think my computer is.
[02:01:53] <Runaway1956> Thanks progo
[02:02:19] <progo> is your javascript engine lying?
[02:02:26] <progo> I assumed it was converted locally in js in the browser
[02:02:48] <progo> stop living on Curiosity Rover time just to be different
[02:03:28] <Runaway1956> My VPN tells tales, kinda
[02:04:13] <progo> I was watching a video on Odysee about "forgotten / unknown moons of dwarf planets". the presenter kept saying "Chair-on" for Charon, and worse, "The Moon" whenever he meant OUR moon. syntactically confusing in such an essay
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[02:05:00] <Runaway1956> Charon and Sharon sound alike in my dialect.
[02:05:42] <soylentil79> l
[02:05:50] <progo> https://en.wikipedia.org "kɛərɒn" :^b
[02:05:51] <systemd> ^ 03Charon - Wikipedia
[02:05:52] <Runaway1956> Ever seen a rose of Charon?
[02:05:57] <progo> also I need to learn IPA some day
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[02:06:06] -!- mode/#soylent [+v soylentil79] by Imogen
[02:06:55] <progo> no, but that'd be a good cartoon drawing
[02:07:06] soylentil79 is now known as mrpg
[02:07:09] * progo pins a rose to Charon's cloak
[02:09:06] <progo> speaking of greek mythology names…
[02:09:33] <progo> my company just got a contract for Cerberus file sharing tool which I'd previously not heard of, as a replacement for the much maligned MoveIT
[02:09:49] <progo> I'm wondering how they came to name it the same name as Kerberos the authentication scheme
[02:11:15] <Runaway1956> Are they in the same country? Maybe one is Irish, and the other Indian?
[02:12:19] <Runaway1956> You can't understand either one due to their accents
[02:13:47] <progo> rural mountainy man Irish is perfectly valid English
[02:20:31] <halibut> I believe the meeting is in #meeting, not #soylent (or #meating; not sure what that one is for, yet).
[02:23:44] <progo> says so in the blog post yes
[02:29:35] <halibut> Somebody asked earlier.
[02:39:25] <chromas> progo: the name Cerberus came out a couple years before the authentication scheme
[02:39:42] <progo> specifically for that file sharing tool?
[02:39:47] <progo> huh. I figured it was new
[02:39:59] <chromas> I dunno, but the name's been around
[02:40:09] <progo> 2001 says wikipedia
[02:40:13] <chromas> No reason to shy away from a name just because someone misspelled it for their own tool though
[02:40:27] <chromas> CDE came before KDE
[02:40:39] <progo> ha ha
[02:40:51] <chromas> and Soylent came before Soylent came before Soylent
[02:40:55] <progo> I hate that "Windows" makes it hard to search for non-Windows window manager problems
[02:41:21] <chromas> make it singular
[02:41:30] <chromas> (but not Cingular)
[02:41:50] * progo xes that
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[02:42:22] <progo> did you hear X/Twitter just commandeered the handle of user @x who'd had it since the beginning of time?
[02:42:33] <progo> oh wait that was on Soylent News. nm
[02:42:41] <progo> he was remarkably serene about it
[02:43:01] <chromas> Should've taken the bucks before, then someone else would be screwed
[02:44:35] <progo> https://static.noagendasocial.com they can't seem to pay their rent for a year. but they put up this wonderful sign blasting a tower full of bedrooms with a blinking white light
[02:44:50] <progo> that kind of behavior gets a company bombed
[02:44:53] <progo> just sayin'
[02:45:41] * progo doesn't condone violence
[02:47:17] <Veyrdite> Wow the lens flare in that video is a better rendition of the logo than the logo itself.
[02:47:37] <progo> ha ha
[02:47:42] <chromas> probably the camera can't handle the dynamic range needed to see the X
[02:47:45] <Veyrdite> It's kinda cool, I've enver seen that.
[02:47:47] <Veyrdite> Yeah
[02:48:05] <chromas> someone mentioned the X Window System logo the other day
[02:48:17] <progo> actually the fact that it's a pocket phone and able to handle that kind of dynamic range and you can understand the signal is pretty amazin
[02:48:19] <progo> *amazing
[02:48:23] <progo> remember 1980s television cameras?
[02:48:44] <progo> hit a light, and the camera is blown out for 2 seconds
[02:50:07] <Veyrdite> My two normal cameras are 10 years old. They beat the pants off mobile phone cameras in some ways, but get completely blasted by them in others (like low light).
[02:50:24] <Veyrdite> I tried recording a video on one of them a while ago. Compressing the file was really hard because there was so much digital noise.
[02:50:34] <Veyrdite> The poor x264 codec struggled
[02:51:00] <Veyrdite> I tried some smoothing & denoising filters, but I had to set them very aggressively.
[02:51:08] <progo> just add some digital vaseline
[02:51:09] <progo> :^)
[02:51:29] <Veyrdite> Actually that's legit :) Blurring (or just downscaling) would help.
[02:51:39] <progo> yeah
[02:51:42] <progo> hard to find a balance
[02:53:55] <Veyrdite> "Balance" -> 8MiB Shrek movie https://old.reddit.com
[02:54:22] <Veyrdite> Huh that version seems broken, but this one works: https://old.reddit.com
[02:54:23] <systemd> ^ 03Shrek but it's 8mb (again)
[02:55:30] <progo> that's like 6 floppies
[02:55:43] <Veyrdite> Sorry :| I've gotten so used to CD-Rs
[02:56:14] * Veyrdite recalls vague memories of CD+R and CD-R for burning dreamcast games...
[02:57:11] <Veyrdite> Who remembers the reindeer?
[02:57:15] <progo> wow I almost didn't recognize it's Mike Meyers reading the intro
[02:57:44] <Veyrdite> The voices are surprisingly understandable though. I thought the audio alone would be more than 8MiB
[02:58:29] <progo> talk radio sounds pretty damned good at 16kbps mono Opus format
[02:58:35] <Veyrdite> Doh the second link was supposed to be https://old.reddit.com but I guess it doesn't matter if you managed to get it working anyway.
[02:58:37] <systemd> ^ 038MiB Shrek is back
[02:58:46] <Veyrdite> Opus is the magic we don't deserve. It makes me so happy.
[02:59:06] <Veyrdite> Literally any proprietary audio codec at this point is probably a joke. I wish more SIP stuff supported opus.
[02:59:44] <progo> yeah that's the joke. FOSS community produces a good codec, and it doesn't get included everywhere
[03:01:07] <Veyrdite> Actually on that point, I think Mumble switched from speex to opus? Did they ever fix the clicky audio or is that still a thing? I never managed to get rid of that on any computer or settings config in Mumble.
[03:01:08] <progo> this Shrek encoding masterpiece at 72p… imagine how many channels of shit you could fit over the air or on cable, at the bitrate it's using
[03:01:13] <Veyrdite> Lol
[03:01:43] <progo> Mumble -- no idea, myself
[03:02:46] <Veyrdite> Some quick calcs: 72 wide x 127 high x 6fps x 3 bytes per pixel = 165888 baud. Literally kilohertz of uncompressed video.
[03:03:48] <Veyrdite> *128 high
[03:05:25] <progo> no vertical video please
[03:05:46] <Veyrdite> Let's assume they have something like 500Mhz to play with for cable TV downlink. That's about 3000 stations of uncompressed video. In reality you would get a lot less, but then compression wins a lot back.
[03:05:50] <Veyrdite> Oh no sorry
[03:06:03] <Veyrdite> This is awkward
[03:06:08] * Veyrdite turns head 90*
[03:07:09] <progo> https://c2.staticflickr.com
[03:07:36] <Veyrdite> If we work with the compressed numbers: 8MiB/90mins = 1480 bits per second. Over a 500MBit link that's approximately 330000 channels.
[03:08:16] <Veyrdite> I think estimates to the number of movies ever made isn't even in the millions.
[03:08:39] <progo> new project idea, using this low bitrate video idea:
[03:08:39] <progo> let's make the biggest radio sphere EVER of Never Gonna Give You Up
[03:09:20] <progo> except, the encoding would have to be pretty simple
[03:09:25] <Veyrdite> What's a radio sphere?
[03:09:48] <progo> the surface of a sphere of radiation containing a radio broadcast that leaks out of our atmosphere
[03:09:54] <progo> or the same from another world
[03:10:16] <progo> how big it can get depends on how far away it's still coherent enough to decode
[03:10:21] <progo> power, bandwidth, etc
[03:11:50] <chromas> video codecs don't use 3 bytes per pixel
[03:12:01] <chromas> most don't really even have pixels
[03:12:23] <chromas> That's why they're magic
[03:52:39] <chromas> https://www.theverge.com
[03:52:40] <systemd> ^ 03The Borderlands movie comes out next year
[03:52:50] <chromas> isn't that basically Mad Max though?
[03:54:06] <mrpg> 𝕏
[03:54:37] <chromas> Can he register 𝕏.com?
[03:55:37] <progo> already did
[03:56:03] <mrpg> No, he has x.com
[03:56:15] <progo> 𝕏.com redirects to twitter
[03:57:05] <chromas> hm, 𝕏 just converts to x first. lame
[03:57:21] <progo> https://whois.domaintools.com so it seems
[03:57:22] <systemd> ^ 03Whois Lookup Captcha
[03:57:29] <Veyrdite> chromas: Yes, it was a super hazy approximation. I don't know how cable TV works (probablly all MPEG2 streams now). I went with the compressed 8MiB/90mins = bitrate calc afterswards instead.
[03:57:32] <mrpg> Yes I just saw it 𝕏 turns to x
[03:57:37] <progo> probably some 200s-era rule about ASCII-lookalike typosquatting
[03:58:05] <progo> I mean … that's what I get ^ when I lookup 𝕏.com on that site
[03:58:11] <mrpg> That was a nightmare in the 200s
[03:58:14] <progo> *2000s-era
[03:58:24] <progo> caused the dark ages
[03:59:33] <mrpg> Sound business decision, "i'll change the name to my favorite letter". Marketing be damned.
[04:00:19] <progo> youtube algo suggested a new music theory channel… I watched an analysis of Waterloo… shit. now that song is in my head
[04:00:25] <progo> dammit ABBA
[04:00:35] <chromas> it was always a trash service. it's just that now Musk was able to get everyone to agree finally
[04:01:04] <progo> so, if everyone agrees Twitter is bad, basically, what did Meta do wrong with Threads?
[04:01:07] <progo> is it just that people hate Meta?
[04:01:23] <progo> AFAICT Threads is just Instagram plus you can start a thread with no attachment
[04:01:32] <mrpg> https://www.youtube.com
[04:01:34] <systemd> ^ 03Ese compa ya está muerto. Nomás no le han avisado.
[04:01:37] <progo> I haven't used any of these mainstream services since 2015 or so
[04:02:00] <progo> but I will read threads while not logged in, on twitter, if someone shares. if it's feeling friendly today.
[04:02:14] <Veyrdite> I "use" twitter as far as I read tweets when linked to them (via nitter, because it's much less annoying) but that's it.
[04:02:17] <Veyrdite> Yeah
[04:02:35] <progo> mrpg are you threatening Musk? :L^)
[04:02:39] <progo> * :^)
[04:03:29] <mrpg> No, just X.com
[04:03:33] <progo> X vs Threads: it's VERY hard to get people to move all at once to somewhere else
[04:03:45] <mrpg> I give it... 10 years of slow decline
[04:03:49] <progo> lol
[04:04:02] <progo> slower than Heisenberg's downfall
[04:04:49] <chromas> threads only has good stats because everyone's already automatically on it
[04:05:02] <chromas> they tried to do a google+
[04:05:10] <progo> obviously
[04:05:27] <progo> so, stats aside, no one actually cared that it was handed to them as an option
[04:05:45] <progo> much better to have in your head than "Waterloo": https://www.youtube.com
[04:05:48] <systemd> ^ 03The Entertainer
[04:05:56] <chromas> has anyone of actual note really left xtwitter86?
[04:06:13] <mrpg> 10 years unless Elon decides to delete it out of the blue
[04:06:13] <progo> I have
[04:06:17] <progo> I am very much of note
[04:06:38] <chromas> anyone with thousands of followers or whatever twitter has?
[04:06:43] <progo> yeah I think so
[04:06:53] <progo> can't think of any names now that I know really quit
[04:09:11] <progo> allegedly Twitter has been paying some influencers now for impressions or whatever
[04:09:23] <progo> Tim Pool claims to have got a paycheck bigger than he was expecting
[04:09:39] <progo> did they ever pay the year of rent they owed in San Francisco since Musk took over?
[04:10:06] <chromas> was paying influencers a new thing though?
[04:10:17] <progo> paying them for posting on twitter
[04:10:29] <progo> new for twitter, standard operating procedure on youtube -- but not a lot of money
[04:11:54] <progo> specifically paying them for posts that get a lot of pageviews or impressions or whatever
[04:12:47] <chromas> how evil
[04:13:44] <progo> I have a friend who's a bad cartoonist who hasn't got better in 10 years. he applied for "monetization" on Twitter and got no reply
[04:14:12] <progo> don't build a brand or a business on X/Twitter or YouTube. they don't have their shit together
[04:14:40] <progo> if you make money that's great … until someone flips a switch and you're cancelled and no human can tell you why
[04:15:31] <chromas> yeah that's why everyone started pimping raid shadow legends and all the glowie vpn services
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[04:16:15] <progo> Count Dankula's latest RAID SHADOW LEGENDS ad actually ends with "… and join my clan … because there's no one else in it, and I'm lonely"
[04:17:00] <progo> he must get conversions for Raid, because they keep buying more ads from him
[04:17:15] <chromas> I heard they pay a buttload o' moneys
[04:17:43] <progo> yeah there's a handful of companies with a few dozen brands that are shoveling what's left of Dot Com Boom 2 to the video essay people
[04:18:16] <progo> the company that ran the "buy a lordship in scotland" scam has dozens of brands/products still in play
[04:18:19] <chromas> and china
[04:18:38] <chromas> muh opera x and all those idle games
[04:18:42] <chromas> opera gx
[04:19:22] <progo> Count Dankula also promotes "Displate", which is as far as I can tell not even a bit scammy. you place an order, and you get a poster printed on metal, with magnetic mounts you glue to your wall
[04:19:33] <progo> I assume they licensed all the artwork
[04:19:45] <progo> (movie posters and fantasy brands and that sort of thing)
[04:27:56] <progo> oh yeah, related to all this: Wendover Productions recently did a "holy shit our business hasn't died" anniversary video for Nebula (infotainment youtubers, paywalled with no ads)
[04:28:24] <progo> in the video he talks about some of the nonsense that goes on with the youtube influencer scam / ad industry
[04:28:31] <progo> I assume this video is on youtube too
[04:29:36] <progo> here it is https://www.youtube.com 30 minutes
[04:29:38] <systemd> ^ 03How We Built a $150 Million Streaming Platform with $100,000
[04:30:28] <progo> he and his gang didn't want to keep getting screwed by the ad agencies with contracts that prevented them from even knowing how well they were performing as promoters
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[05:05:22] <mrpg> Elon must envy David X Cohen from futurama
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[05:17:59] <mrpg> Thats all folks see you tomorrow at 8 30 utc in #meeting
[05:18:21] <mrpg> 830 pm utc
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[05:42:11] <soylentil58> AC here. Have submitted articles on IRC years ago and in more recent time via submit story link. Some of us are in good faith and that's more than can be said for some account holders. *Strongly* urge the ??? in ./ -> SN -> ??? to have multidimensional mod & filter, and allow ACs. Mod funny + troll should show to users filtering to include humour
[05:42:11] <soylentil58> foremost, where default would probably filter out troll that isn't outweighed by informative/good-faith/etc.
[05:43:13] <soylentil58> That one structural change - multidimensional modding - and that one societal inclusion - ACs who are AC by necessity - would bring me and possibly others back
[05:43:41] <soylentil58> As it is, I have basically stopped reading and submitting now that I cannot discuss
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[05:44:33] <soylentil58> hopefully some of you 47 actually see and consider this
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[11:19:05] <Runaway1956> thank you halibut_
[11:19:17] <Runaway1956> I see I have no voice in #meeting
[11:32:38] <fab23> Runaway1956: for a meeting channel this makes sense, so before you are allowed to write, you need to contact the moderator and probably mention about what you want to talk, and then when its your run you will get voice.
[11:36:14] <Runaway1956> OK, thanks fab23
[13:24:38] <requerdanos> jeez walls of text for a good morning. how is everyone.
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[14:05:23] <fab23> requerdanos: its already 16:00 in Europe :)
[14:08:59] <requerdanos> heh that didn't improve my morning, took me awhile to catch up on the site, mostly comments--many not short--on a meta front page story.
[14:10:12] <requerdanos> I read books--themselves full, of course, of text--but for some reason I find online wall-of-text type prose daunting to read and digest
[14:14:15] <ted-ious> =submit https://www.theregister.com rent-seeking-for-intangible-assets dept. https://ir.aboutamazon.com
[14:14:25] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03AWS to Charge Customers for Public IPv4 Addresses From 2024" (3893p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:14:50] <ted-ious> That is alot of paragraphs.
[14:14:59] <requerdanos> less than four thousand
[14:16:09] <requerdanos> ah, each element in the quarterly results table got its own paragraph
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[15:36:28] <khallow> howdy
[15:37:44] <requerdanos> greetings.
[16:05:34] <khallow> This isn't the meeting channel, right?
[16:06:10] <khallow> nevermind, I found it
[16:06:13] <chromas> There's #meeting which is +m (so unvoiced can't talk) and then #meeting-discuss which I guess is for talking about the meeting
[16:06:25] <khallow> Yea, I read instructions for once
[16:06:44] <kolie> There is also #meeting-didcuss
[16:06:44] <khallow> Would it be possible to get Loggie running on those two channels?
[16:07:10] <chromas> yeah but nobody's gotten around to it yet
[16:07:21] <chromas> kolie or janrinok need to invite him
[16:07:38] <kolie> i can add loggie.
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[16:19:53] <khallow> Incidentally, I forgot to journal about the tree war in Yellowstone National Park. It was repulsed with minor damage and some power outages.
[16:19:58] <khallow> https://ftw.usatoday.com
[16:19:59] <systemd> ^ 03Damaging thunderstorm hits Yellowstone; 'Like a hurricane'
[16:20:32] <khallow> That's Sandpiper Annex to the Lake Yellowstone Hotel.
[16:20:39] <khallow> And it held strong under the onslaught
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[16:21:56] <khallow> We're under truce right now and casualties have been removed to turn into lumber for repair projects on buildings that my employer is contractually responsible for.
[16:22:41] <khallow> The two weird things about it is that despite all the trees down, there were no blown out windows as far as I know
[16:23:22] <khallow> and Sandpiper got the worst of it even though there are hundreds of trees down in the area.
[16:24:16] <khallow> Sandpiper has nine trees on it in that picture above.
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[16:42:18] <Freeman> Hmm..., is there a way to merge Freeman and Freeman_SN?
[16:43:06] <Freeman> Uhh.., that is weird, I guess I am Freeman again.
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[16:46:47] <kolie> requerdanos, you there?
[16:48:08] <fab23> Freeman: you are able to register an alias nick to your primary, both then have the same password.
[16:50:23] <Freeman> It seems like it was set as Freeman_SN the other day, but it's just showing Freeman now.
[16:50:40] <Freeman> So, it's fine now?
[16:56:15] <fab23> Freeman: you are Freeman now, I have no idea what you did tell nickserv :)
[16:59:30] <Freeman> 'heh, I see people were discussing x.com earlier. I can't help but thing about XCOM the game, whenever I see x.com posted.
[16:59:51] <fab23> Freeman: if you did not register with nickserv, then your IRC client may have alternative names when the primary already is in use on some IRC network.
[17:00:56] <fab23> Freeman: you are talking about the onnline platform that does not matter any more, as it is now a walled garden as well.
[17:03:16] <fab23> https://www.geekculture.com
[17:03:16] <systemd> ^ 03X is pissed.
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[17:08:28] <Freeman> I.E. the EX-Twitter x.com site. ;-)
[17:10:04] <Freeman> I've played a ton of 'ye olde XCOM from the late 90s.
[17:10:37] <Freeman> https://en.wikipedia.org
[17:10:38] <systemd> ^ 03XCOM - Wikipedia
[17:10:50] <Freeman> The newer logo even has a dot in betweeen the X and COM. XD
[17:11:49] <Freeman> Ohh...hmm.., that may be an older logo.
[17:12:58] <Freeman> Yeah, X-COM Apocalypse and X-COM Interceptor both had what looks like a dot instead of a dash in the logo.
[17:13:39] <requerdanos> hi kolie, was afk but back now
[17:14:14] <kolie> pm
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[18:30:12] <Ingar> I guess, I'm just late :p
[18:31:39] <janrinok> for what?
[18:32:01] <janrinok> get logged into #meeting and #meeting-discussion
[18:32:42] <fab23> Ingar: you are on time, the meeting is at 22:30 in our time zone
[18:33:19] <Ingar> fab23: oh nice, thanks. then I still have time to grab some dinner
[18:33:33] <janrinok> #meeting-discuss - correction!
[18:33:37] <fab23> Ingar: plenty :)
[18:33:49] <janrinok> and to buy popcorn
[18:33:49] <Ingar> I might make some popcorn
[18:33:55] <janrinok> gotcha
[18:33:58] <fab23> janrinok: \o/
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[18:55:33] <mechanicjay> Ingar: note, it's #meeting-discuss not discussion
[18:56:18] <janrinok> hi mechanicjay - I did correct myself. Have you arrived early to get a seat near the front?
[18:56:33] <Ingar> mechanicjay: I was already in there wehn you joined :) thx
[18:57:50] <janrinok> I have been on #meeting since Saturday, but #meeting-discuss was only created in the last few hours.
[19:07:56] <mechanicjay> janrinok: sorry, apparently I'm having reading comprehension issues this morning. Was timeslicing my attention across 4 different things.
[19:16:43] <janrinok> unsurprisingly - see the latest email from me.
[19:24:53] <mechanicjay> janrinok: roger
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[19:41:37] <fab23> 🍿
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[20:17:07] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[20:20:33] <mrpg> Ready for the town hall
[20:21:44] <kazzie> It might be a good idea to update the channel topic to forward latecomers on to the right channels?
[20:22:30] <separatrix> What channel are we supposed to be on for the town hall?
[20:23:05] <kazzie> #meeting for the moderated meeting, #meeting-discuss for open discussion
[20:23:26] <janrinok> #meeting for the Board meeting itself, but you haven't got voice, and #meeting-discuss for, well, discussions
[20:26:45] <separatrix> ty
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[21:10:28] <pTamok> #meeting
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[23:12:05] <mrpg> popcorn++
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[23:19:36] <Veyrdite> The "PreviewStory" button on https://soylentnews.org doesn't seem to be working for me. I just get " You must preview once, provide a subject, some text, and a topic before you can submit" at the top. Am I doing something wrong or is this broken?
[23:19:39] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[23:20:27] <Veyrdite> Doh yes I had one of those fields wrong
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